TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

GeoFee

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it’s just time to salvage what’s good and not repeat the past.
Historians note the rise and fall of 23 civilizations. The pattern of their fall is the same for all. We are now in the late stages of that pattern. Sad to say the great majority prefer not to see things as they are. These will be profoundly traumatized when the walls come tumbling down. Those looking reality in its face are equipping themselves for the times of tribulation.

Einstein noted that problems could not be solved by resort to the means producing those problems. Socrates spells out the decline and decay of democratic responsibility leads to the rise of tyranny.

That said, I respect your optimism and your passion. I would like nothing better than history proving me wrong.
 
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Historians note the rise and fall of 23 civilizations. The pattern of their fall is the same for all. We are now in the late stages of that pattern. Sad to say the great majority prefer not to see things as they are. These will be profoundly traumatized when the walls come tumbling down. Those looking reality in its face are equipping themselves for the times of tribulation.

Einstein noted that problems could not be solved by resort to the means producing those problems. Socrates spells out the decline and decay of democratic responsibility leads to the rise of tyranny.

That said, I respect your optimism and your passion. I would like nothing better than history proving me wrong.
“Einstein noted that problems could not be solved by resort to the means producing those problems. Socrates spells out the decline and decay of democratic responsibility leads to the rise of tyranny.”

I am not suggesting we resort to the same means of producing those problems . 23 civilizations, huh? Well we should have enough past experience learned from, to save the 24th (oops pardon me). As for Socrates, Rita seems eager to help in and promote the decline of democratic responsibility. So, according to Socrates, she’s contributing to tyranny. (I think that about libertarians generally.) History on its own won’t prove you wrong. It involves people in action making what will be history - exercising democratic responsibility at the very minimum - to do so.
 
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A no government, non legally regulated totally free market system is just a bonanza for the rich, a snatch and grab system of arbitrary arbitrators each for their own interests - social Darwinism for everyone else. Pure hell.
 

Luce NDs

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Some fringe responsibility might assist ... but total freedom would assure us the tyrants don't need that for self regulation ... professional guilders will look after that ... and support bribes! SNC and all the .... Saturday Night Comedowns ... accept the comedy of the tricksters ...

Just one stage of multiple levels of corruption ... something we have to work thorough as life in small jumps ... quondam? (that "once was" little corrupt and now has taken a large jump to support the rich getting there quick)

There are interesting economic and ego nomic etudes that are preferred as ignored!
 

Ritafee

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You must be in a pretty comfortable position to think you can just let the whole government system collapse and not see or salvage anything redeemable about it, though - when parts of it are the only thing keeping people alive and we need those parts stronger to help the bottom of society have a decent life. Bernie is not going to save it singlehandedly, but like minded people and good policies can pull it from the brink. Now is not the time to focus on revenge for injustice and let the whole system go to hell...that’s evil...it’s just time to salvage what’s good and not repeat the past.
My position is mostly uncomfortable ... being that I reject the legitimacy of violent and coercive government authority.

I think of anarchy as the freedom to be responsible for my own choices and accountable for the consequences as they might affect others.

I am inclined towards open source schooling and voluntary 'structure' outside of the government.

I am not at all focused on revenge against 'government' ... I just no longer passively accept them as legitimate.

Non-violent resistance is not vengeful.

I do not call myself a Christian but still I found this link to Jacues Ellul’s essay on Christian anarchy very useful ...

 

Graeme Decarie

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regrets
A rather large entry of mine got put, for some reason, at the end of 557 instead of the start of 558.
I shall report this to the proper authorities.
 

Mendalla

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A rather large entry of mine got put, for some reason, at the end of 557 instead of the start of 558.
I shall report this to the proper authorities.
It wasn't long enough. :D

I am kidding, of course. The software is set to show 20 messages per page, so yours must have been the 20th rather than the 21st.
 

Luce NDs

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More wordy shifts ... beware when they are deeply red ... cerulean?

May generate Blue J'zzes ... an indigo shady activity! It is a level of levite activity ... and there we leave it ...
 

GeoFee

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As for Socrates, Rita seems eager to help in and promote the decline of democratic responsibility. So, according to Socrates, she’s contributing to tyranny.
Rita notices the decline of democratic responsibility as did Socrates. Rita advocates resistance to democratic structures as did Socrates. Like many others, including me, Rita encourages personal responsibility and accountability. Something which is tragically lacking in our historical period.

A review of western history will support this statement:

"Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty." Plato

I will recommend a small book by Plato called "Gorgias", where Socrates is presented as an advocate for ethical responsibility and resistant to the persuasive rhetoric of power seeking persons.
 
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Rita notices the decline of democratic responsibility as did Socrates. Rita advocates resistance to democratic structures as did Socrates. Like many others, including me, Rita encourages personal responsibility and accountability. Something which is tragically lacking in our historical period.

A review of western history will support this statement:

"Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty." Plato

I will recommend a small book by Plato called "Gorgias", where Socrates is presented as an advocate for ethical responsibility and resistant to the persuasive rhetoric of power seeking persons.
Rita advocates extreme liberty, though. That's what scares me - tyranny will arise from libertarians and anarchists (not Rita herself, but the ideology that supports total individual freedom cannot, naturally, allow for structures of accountability - because who's individual freedom comes before another's will inevitably come into conflict - which will leave a vacuum for tyrants seeking to solve the conflicts or enforce their own freedom at others expense with might and vigilanteism in the absence of a structured legal process ). It's the US's libertarian history and ethos that made them into world bullies in the first place - starting with staking their property rights over those of indigenous populations and deeming slaves to be their property. It was the Wild West - personal freedom abounded, especially if you were a white colonial European male with a musket.
 
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GeoFee

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Rita advocates extreme liberty, though.
As did Jesus, the Buddha, Lao Tzu and Socrates. These turned away from the error that is destroying the world. That error being the genesis of all our historical conflicts. Each being characterized by the assertion of self goodness and other badness. From our earliest history we have been caught in struggle between good and evil expressed as right and wrong. Each side of the quarrel accusing the other of error. My concern has nothing to do with who is right and who is wrong. My concern is for discovering and expressing the best possible me. How do I be truthful and be kind? How do I put off my error so that my truth may be revealed?

It may be possible that we are each speaking a language the other does not understand. This is very common in our time.
 
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As did Jesus, the Buddha, Lao Tzu and Socrates. These turned away from the error that is destroying the world. That error being the genesis of all our historical conflicts. Each being characterized by the assertion of self goodness and other badness. From our earliest history we have been caught in struggle between good and evil expressed as right and wrong. Each side of the quarrel accusing the other of error. My concern has nothing to do with who is right and who is wrong. My concern is for discovering and expressing the best possible me. How do I be truthful and be kind? How do I put off my error so that my truth may be revealed?

It may be possible that we are each speaking a language the other does not understand. This is very common in our time.
No they didn't. Jesus was against the unjust laws of the time - against corruption and injustice. He wasn't against laws he saw loving others, rather than power, as the moral basis for making any laws.
 

Luce NDs

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A little mud in the eye can open one's mind to those forced to live as pigs --- Doolittle!

Have another bier with me and we can set fire to something ... the abstract? We sparks in a dark spot? Containers Klinck ...
 

BetteTheRed

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No they didn't. Jesus was against the unjust laws of the time - against corruption and injustice. He wasn't against laws he saw loving others, rather than power, as the moral basis for making any laws.
Lots of dualism there. I'm not sure I see that in Jesus. He was for the underdog, for sure, but that's something of a moving target, socially, politically. "Intersectionality" is a cool paradigm for examining "injustice"; is "corruption" always bad if it's imbedded in a culture?
 

Luce NDs

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If one looks up the metaphors (pseudonyms) for wisdom and then the opposing ... is it best to be ignorant so as to avoid responsibility ... as you might be expected to react to the ignorance factor?

That's that funny buzz machine in my head going whir and bop ... only stops when I'm out of it and the wee gods rest ... as all that's left in the indelible domain!

No wonder the powers prefer an ignorant civil-social structure ... they don't know the difference as divine state ...

The the rift between the search for power and the search to know ... and in the physical realm desire wins and wisdom enters that domain below the horizon ... subtle? From there the entire integral departed ... perhaps as satyr or the hind end!
 
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