The Gospel of Mark

Redbaron

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Which is why I suggested psychosomatic paralysis. That's the only way I could explain a psychological/spiritual cure (forgiven sins) curing a physical condition (man with paralysis able to walk) without resorting to the miraculous (which is the other feasible explanation, just requires a faith that I'm not holding). That said, we are back to the question of how taking such a position affects how one sees the message of the text. If Jesus was really a 1st century pop psychology guru rather than a miracle worker, that definitely puts a different spin on the rest of his ministry.
As long as we don't see Jesus as a first century Benny Hinn...
 

Waterfall

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Can you unpack that a bit? Not sure what you're getting at but it could just be my brain being fuzzy.
Well I recall rreading in scripture that miracles are for the unbelievers.
John 10:37-38
Makes me wonder ....would we believe without the miracles?
 

Redbaron

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But could it be a deeper faith that doesnt require the cure?
I think part of faith is a trusting resignation to things that ain't gonna change (the senenety to accept the things I cannot change... for example). To use Paul's example again, once he realized that whatever condition he had wasn't going to disappear, he could stop begging God to take it away, and focus better on how to function with his disability, whatever it may have been. And, to his great surprise, by God's grace, he could.
 

Mendalla

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As long as we don't see Jesus as a first century Benny Hinn...
I was thinking more Anthony Robbins or similar.

Well I recall rreading in scripture that miracles are for the unbelievers.
John 10:37-38
Makes me wonder ....would we believe without the miracles?
I would argue that believing in miracles comes with belief and is aimed more at encouraging believers.. A non-believer like chansen or Pavlos isn't likely to be convinced by alleged miracles. People who are "converted" by a "miracle" likely weren't hard non-believers to start with.
 

unsafe

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Waterfall ---Jesus doesn't choose ------Faith in the Healing Power of Jesus chooses ------Jesus couldn't heal many in His own home town because of their unbelief -------


unsafe says -----
Paul's problem was Satan alone and the scripture tells us that below and it gives the reason why he was tormented -----Satan has access to all people including Born Again Christ--ians ---it is up to us to keep Satan a bay ----Jesus defeated Satan's power of sin and death over us on the cross only ----- Satan will be here to temp and torment us till Jesus comes back and defeats him for good ------

unsafe posting here from 2 Corinthians ---AMP
A Thorn in the Flesh
7 Because of the surpassing greatness and extraordinary nature of the revelations [which I received from God], for this reason, to keep me from thinking of myself as important, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, to torment and harass me—to keep me from exalting myself!

unsafe says -----
So to keep Paul humble Satan was allowed to torment him -----
 

Luce NDs

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The miracle is that we can be cognizant of nothing ... a minus myth, as essence with nothing to it ... but inclusive!
 

Waterfall

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I think part of faith is a trusting resignation to things that ain't gonna change (the senenety to accept the things I cannot change... for example). To use Paul's example again, once he realized that whatever condition he had wasn't going to disappear, he could stop begging God to take it away, and focus better on how to function with his disability, whatever it may have been. And, to his great surprise, by God's grace, he could.
So I wonder when God cures the paraplegic....should we focus on the part that he could walk again which speaks to the world or that he was carried and brought to Jesus?
 

Waterfall

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Waterfall ---Jesus doesn't choose ------Faith in the Healing Power of Jesus chooses ------Jesus couldn't heal many in His own home town because of their unbelief -------


unsafe says -----
Paul's problem was Satan alone and the scripture tells us that below and it gives the reason why he was tormented -----Satan has access to all people including Born Again Christ--ians ---it is up to us to keep Satan a bay ----Jesus defeated Satan's power of sin and death over us on the cross only ----- Satan will be here to temp and torment us till Jesus comes back and defeats him for good ------

unsafe posting here from 2 Corinthians ---AMP
A Thorn in the Flesh
7 Because of the surpassing greatness and extraordinary nature of the revelations [which I received from God], for this reason, to keep me from thinking of myself as important, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, to torment and harass me—to keep me from exalting myself!

unsafe says -----
So to keep Paul humble Satan was allowed to torment him -----
Gods love should be enough to keep us humble IMHO.
 

blackbelt1961

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Jumping ahead to Paul whose thorn was never removed. Are healings random then?Jesus doesnt heal everyone....how does He choose?
that's a good question, My wife is a walking miracle against all odds, yet there are those who have not been healed. Personally, I look at it as Jesus did in the garden of Gethsemane, yet not my will but thy will be done.

God most times can see the bigger picture , we cant
 

blackbelt1961

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Well I recall rreading in scripture that miracles are for the unbelievers.
John 10:37-38
Makes me wonder ....would we believe without the miracles?
actually, Jesus in John 10:37-38 is testifying to the miracles, its testimonies that are for unbelievers, God being sovereign can and does heal anyone He pleases regardless of faith
 

Luce NDs

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Thus sublime light ... a different hue?

However that does not support absolute claims over abstract essences ... water makes a good metaphor ... superfluous!
 

blackbelt1961

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yall missing the Bigger picture in Healing Miracles because those healed will still get old, sick again and eventually, die
 

Luce NDs

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yall missing the Bigger picture in Healing Miracles because those healed will still get old, sick again and eventually, die

The great escape from absolute stauches? They will plug it no matter what! The push remains ...
 

BetteTheRed

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But we CAN agree that the theory of Q is a solid one, in that the other two synoptic gospels seem to rely for source material on both Mark, and another source that appears to explain the common elements to both Matthew and Luke?
 

unsafe

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blackbelt1961 -----your quote -----, God being sovereign can and does heal anyone He pleases regardless of faith

unsafe says ---you make a good point here ----it is God who Heals not our Faith ------ we can't please God without Faith so Faith helps us receive healing but it is not Faith that Heals ---It is the Healer (God ) who does the healing ------and I think many misunderstand this ----many believe that you have to have great Faith in healing to be healed ----and I think we need to understand that Jesus did nothing on His own He did what He was told to do from this Father ---so the healings came from God -----and the healings today come from God who is the Healer not the Faith -----Our Faith is in God who can heal us --------
 

Mendalla

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But we CAN agree that the theory of Q is a solid one, in that the other two synoptic gospels seem to rely for source material on both Mark, and another source that appears to explain the common elements to both Matthew and Luke?
I would agree, though Gord's point is fair. There could even be multiple common sources beyond Mark for all we know. The Q theory is a strong one but in the absence of actually finding a document that fits the parameters of "Q", it remains unproven and will remain unproven. Like a lot of theories about historical topics, it will remain accepted by preponderence of evidence rather than proven empirically.
 
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