Suicide God & Hope

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blackbelt1961

blackbelt1961

Well-Known Member
Suicide God & Hope


It makes sad me Hearing of the death of Anthony Bourdain, I love his shows. Reading some comments from others, especially this one from actor Val Kilmer, really pushed my buttons . Why is its that actors think they are the know it alls of society, do they feel that because people idolise them and all that power goes to there heads?


Here is the article

Val Kilmer calls Anthony Bourdain's death 'so selfish' in angry post


This was my response :


Val Kilmer is an idiot , who has no idea of mental illness. Suicide is called a self fish act because the person suffering from depression cannot see or feel beyond his/her own internal pain which cause them to focused constantly on their own pain 24/7 , suicide for them is a way out of the pain which has completely clouded their ability to think beyond that pain. The act of suicide is not selfish, the disease is!

The spirit guide is another idiot listening to demons , depression can me a mixture of both spiritual and physical , thank God there is Hope beyond our sicknesses of the mind , body and spirit not only for Anthony Bourdain (RIP) but for all of us rich or poor, healthy or sick , that Hope is only found in Jesus

What a senseless & uncompassionate post Val, stay away from your spirit guides!
 
blackbelt1961 said:
Suicide God & Hope


It makes sad me Hearing of the death of Anthony Bourdain, I love his shows. Reading some comments from others, especially this one from actor Val Kilmer, really pushed my buttons . Why is its that actors think they are the know it alls of society, do they feel that because people idolise them and all that power goes to there heads?


Here is the article

Val Kilmer calls Anthony Bourdain's death 'so selfish' in angry post


This was my response :


Val Kilmer is an idiot , who has no idea of mental illness. Suicide is called a self fish act because the person suffering from depression cannot see or feel beyond his/her own internal pain which cause them to focused constantly on their own pain 24/7 , suicide for them is a way out of the pain which has completely clouded their ability to think beyond that pain. The act of suicide is not selfish, the disease is!

The spirit guide is another idiot listening to demons , depression can me a mixture of both spiritual and physical , thank God there is Hope beyond our sicknesses of the mind , body and spirit not only for Anthony Bourdain (RIP) but for all of us rich or poor, healthy or sick , that Hope is only found in Jesus

What a senseless & uncompassionate post Val, stay away from your spirit guides!
Click to expand...

Consider Jesus martyrdom … as held in delight by those preserved … and thus the light of mental illumination went down!

After the event … we were told typical folks of the middle class didn't need to think anymore … blind intelligence would do … isn't that just out of here?

Do like the metaphor of sacrifice and martyrdom … and thus we move on to the next step dear IO'z us … bring back some of the missing cognizance … the stress of apocalyptic awareness flashes by …

Some grasp it ... some don't ... as they believe soul to be non-existent … fulfilling the desire to deny thought about bad Nous as critical (and bad)!

If one pushes the neighbour down … does one pop up on high? Does allow under standing realms that are considered less …

Is life a bid ridiculous given the demands for "equi" Tae? No X-Q's … and another goes down … dippy or po' lyre diplomatic than you could imagine …

Power of buoyancy is said to be like that … ath aught floated by Archy Medes … a meddling person of philosophical bent ...
 
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blackbelt1961 said:
Why is its that actors think they are the know it alls of society, do they feel that because people idolise them and all that power goes to there heads?
Click to expand...


[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]"Know-it-allism" impacts upon every demographic of society.

I expect that communication from "know-it-alls" varies from individual to individual. Those who have a social media presence will obviously communicate via social media. This gives them a disproportionate voice which may or may not be for the benefit of the common good.

blackbelt1961 said:
[/FONT]
Val Kilmer is an idiot , who has no idea of mental illness. Suicide is called a self fish act because the person suffering from depression cannot see or feel beyond his/her own internal pain which cause them to focused constantly on their own pain 24/7 , suicide for them is a way out of the pain which has completely clouded their ability to think beyond that pain. The act of suicide is not selfish, the disease is!
Click to expand...


Responding to a rant with a rant of your own seems particularly unproductive.

The reality is that many different individuals will respond to suicide in ways that are uniquely their own. The experiences we have had will play a part in shaping that response.

In Mr. Kilmer's defence, he has been fighting Cancer, fighting for his life against it. It apparently boggles his mind how somebody could simply surrender. In that, he lacks empathy. That said, fighting for life against cancer is not a half-assed effort.

Mr. Bourdain was not, as far as we are aware, fighting against cancer. His battle was different.

I empathize with Kilmer's assertion that suicide is ultimately a selfish act. To some degree, I share that perspective. I am aware of the pervasiveness of thought that blinds those considering such action to the consequences that others will be forced to endure because of the decision that they will make.

Ultimately, Kilmer's response to Bourdain and your response to Kilmer fail to be pastoral because neither is really about walking with the other so much as they are walking on the other. Kilmer walks on Bourdain and you walk on Kilmer.

Grief comes in many flavours and frankly, rage is one of those flavours. You cannot swallow it yourself and deny it to another at the same time, that is hypocrisy.

I wouldn't blame this on Kilmer's particular religious persuasion because I know a lot of well-meaning Christians who continuously fail in the sense and compassion departments when dealing with those who grieve.
 
revjohn said:

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]"Know-it-allism" impacts upon every demographic of society.

I expect that communication from "know-it-alls" varies from individual to individual. Those who have a social media presence will obviously communicate via social media. This gives them a disproportionate voice which may or may not be for the benefit of the common good.



Responding to a rant with a rant of your own seems particularly unproductive.

The reality is that many different individuals will respond to suicide in ways that are uniquely their own. The experiences we have had will play a part in shaping that response.

In Mr. Kilmer's defence, he has been fighting Cancer, fighting for his life against it. It apparently boggles his mind how somebody could simply surrender. In that, he lacks empathy. That said, fighting for life against cancer is not a half-assed effort.

Mr. Bourdain was not, as far as we are aware, fighting against cancer. His battle was different.

I empathize with Kilmer's assertion that suicide is ultimately a selfish act. To some degree, I share that perspective. I am aware of the pervasiveness of thought that blinds those considering such action to the consequences that others will be forced to endure because of the decision that they will make.

Ultimately, Kilmer's response to Bourdain and your response to Kilmer fail to be pastoral because neither is really about walking with the other so much as they are walking on the other. Kilmer walks on Bourdain and you walk on Kilmer.

Grief comes in many flavours and frankly, rage is one of those flavours. You cannot swallow it yourself and deny it to another at the same time, that is hypocrisy.

I wouldn't blame this on Kilmer's particular religious persuasion because I know a lot of well-meaning Christians who continuously fail in the sense and compassion departments when dealing with those who grieve.
Click to expand...

yep, dont disagree with you RevJohn, this topic bothers me , it has touched my family, and when people are insensitive about it it gets me.

There is such a cloud around mental illness because its a disease that cannot be physically seen like cancer
 
blackbelt1961 said:
yep, dont disagree with you RevJohn, this topic bothers me, it has touched my family, and when people are insensitive about it it gets me.
Click to expand...

Do we know that suicide hasn't touched Mr. Kilmer and his family?

blackbelt1961 said:
There is such a cloud around mental illness because its a disease that cannot be physically seen like cancer
Click to expand...

Agreed there is a cloud around mental illness. So much so that we forget that cancer can influence our mental health.
 
What better way to maintain the status quo Levine asks:
“than to view inattention, anger, anxiety, and depression as biochemical problems of those who are mentally ill
rather than normal reactions to an increasingly authoritarian society?”​
 
revjohn said:

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]"Know-it-allism" impacts upon every demographic of society.

I expect that communication from "know-it-alls" varies from individual to individual. Those who have a social media presence will obviously communicate via social media. This gives them a disproportionate voice which may or may not be for the benefit of the common good.



Responding to a rant with a rant of your own seems particularly unproductive.

The reality is that many different individuals will respond to suicide in ways that are uniquely their own. The experiences we have had will play a part in shaping that response.

In Mr. Kilmer's defence, he has been fighting Cancer, fighting for his life against it. It apparently boggles his mind how somebody could simply surrender. In that, he lacks empathy. That said, fighting for life against cancer is not a half-assed effort.

Mr. Bourdain was not, as far as we are aware, fighting against cancer. His battle was different.

I empathize with Kilmer's assertion that suicide is ultimately a selfish act. To some degree, I share that perspective. I am aware of the pervasiveness of thought that blinds those considering such action to the consequences that others will be forced to endure because of the decision that they will make.

Ultimately, Kilmer's response to Bourdain and your response to Kilmer fail to be pastoral because neither is really about walking with the other so much as they are walking on the other. Kilmer walks on Bourdain and you walk on Kilmer.

Grief comes in many flavours and frankly, rage is one of those flavours. You cannot swallow it yourself and deny it to another at the same time, that is hypocrisy.

I wouldn't blame this on Kilmer's particular religious persuasion because I know a lot of well-meaning Christians who continuously fail in the sense and compassion departments when dealing with those who grieve.
Click to expand...

Good grieve Charlie as Browned !

By who else … Lucei?
 
monk said:
What better way to maintain the status quo Levine asks:
“than to view inattention, anger, anxiety, and depression as biochemical problems of those who are mentally ill
rather than normal reactions to an increasingly authoritarian society?”​
Click to expand...

Kind 've makes one think against the protocol … of not having thoughts about IT … alternate intellect? Think varied … as if out there departed from this crazy world!
 
I'm not sure that actors think they're "the know it alls" of society. They know that they're part of society, and as a part of society they have a right to express themselves. The fact that many people listen to them and sometimes even treat what they say, post or tweet almost as if it's "expert opinion" says more about the people who treat their comments that way than it does about actors (or athletes, or whoever.)

Suicide is a difficult topic. I have not had it impact my own family but I've certainly presided at funerals for suicide victims. They are very, very hard funerals to conduct. Most people don't understand suicide. Many do become angry when confronted with suicide. I've been the object of people's anger at "suicide funerals" - not because of anything I had done or said but because they're really angry at God for this happening, and I got the honour of being the divine's representative at that moment. Perhaps they're also angry at the deceased, and I got to be the stand-in there as well. You take it, you try to understand it, you try to stand with the person or family lashing out and not react to their anger.

Val Kilmer was angry apparently. Whether it was smart of him to express that anger publicly is debatable, but he's certainly not the only one who's ever lashed out in anger because someone has committed suicide.

I think it better to try to accept and understand that for whatever reason this is a difficult topic for him. He deserves grace rather than anger in response to his anger.
 
"Well, why may I not employ one remedy as well as another - i.e. employ suicide rather than some other kind of avoidance?" - Hume
 
  • It would be easy to prove that suicide is as lawful under Christianity as it was to the heathens. There isn’t a single text of scripture prohibiting it. That great and infallible rule of faith and practice, which must control all philosophy and human reasoning, has left us free in this matter of cutting our lives short.
  • Scripture does recommend that we resign ourselves to ‘patiently put up with’ our fate; but that refers only to troubles that are unavoidable, not to ones that can be remedied by prudence or courage. ‘Thou shalt not kill’ - the sixth of Moses’ ten commandments - is obviously meant to condemn only the killing of others over whose life we have no legitimate authority.
  • Like most of scripture’s commands, this one must be modified by reason and common sense; that is clear from the conduct of judges who condemn criminals to death, despite the letter of the law laid down in the sixth commandment. But even if this commandment were quite explicitly a condemnation of suicide, it wouldn’t have any authority now; for all the law of Moses is abolished by Christianity, except when it is supported by the law of nature.
  • Suicide is not prohibited by that law: in all cases, Christians and heathens are on precisely the same footing.
The power of committing suicide is regarded by the Roman writer Pliny as an advantage that men have even above God.

Source: http://www.earlymoderntexts.com/assets/pdfs/hume1757essay3.pdf
 
Scripture is really not clear on the question of suicide. The only suicide mentioned that I recall is that of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27 (although Acts 1 seems to suggest that Judas' death was an accident.) Nothing in either passage really passes any moral or ethical judgement on Judas, and as far as I understand, the Roman Catholic Church has never declared that Judas was damned either for betraying Jesus or for committing suicide. I suspect the moral reaction of some Christians to suicide does, however, stem from the fact that Judas committed suicide, and Judas is generally not looked upon as a sympathetic character. So, if Judas did it - well, it must be a mortal sin.
 
monk said:
The power of committing suicide is regarded by the Roman writer Pliny as an advantage that men have even above God.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that Pliny the Elder was a Roman pagan so wasn't talking about the Judaeo-Christian God, more God in the Aristotelian sense, and suicide was an acceptable out in some situations in that culture.
 
The story of Judas is in the Bible for many reasons, not the least of which is that before we take anything for granted, we at least ask the question the other apostles asked that fateful night: “Lord, is it I?" Dr. Ray Pritchard
 
It’s not clear that Val Kilmer has no idea of mental illness. In fact, it’s more clear that he does. Maybe he knows it personally. Mental illness touches everyone in some way. It is clear that Val Kilmer loved his friend and is angry with him, right now, for leaving this world too soon.

Neither grief nor mental illness tend to behave reasonably all the time.

I’ve read as much support for Val, as I have criticism, on his twitter feed. Many people who have been suicidal are thanking Kilmer and sending him caring thoughts in his grief. Maybe people need to be reminded that they will leave a big hole in others lives if they are gone...as well as needing the empathy and care to get them past feeling suicidal for just a little longer...a day, a month a year. I think if Bourdain had reached out, Kilmer is exactly the sort of person who could’ve understood and helped him through it.
 
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