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Prophets and prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures

Seeler

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For much of my lifetime I understood prophet to mean someone who could see into the future and foretell what was going to happen, and the Old Testament was full of prophecy pointed to the coming of the Messiah. I also understood that this prophecy was fulfilled with the coming of Jesus. In fact, during my study to become a lay worship leader, I remember one fellow student giving a long presentation on this very subject. You famously have done a lot of research and preparation for he pulled many examples from various parts of the Hebrew Scripture and showed how the pointing to Jesus.

However, recently (and at my age anything within the last two decades is recent) I've learned another definition for a prophet. A prophet is someone who interprets the times and predicts what will happen in the near future if we continue the way we are going. I was reminded of this during the Advent season when I reread and meditated on various passages from the Hebrew Scriptures. I especially was drawn to the prophets. They noticed the many times that their nation was failing to lifted up to its parts of the covenant they understood they had with God. They boldly challenged the kings and the religious leaders to mend their ways, to practice charity, hospitality, justice, and love. And they predicted that this didn't happen, the nation would be defeated.

When the prophecies came true, they remained with the people to give encouragement and hope. God was still with them, God would bring them back home.

These were the Scriptures that Jesus studied as a boy and was able to discuss with the elders and the age of 12. Many times during his ministry he quoted from them or refered to them. He seemed especially attracted to writings in the scroll of Isaiah. The Gospel writers seem to indicate that Jesus saw himself as fulfilling these prophecies.

How do you understand prophecy? Who are the prophets in the world today?
 

Seeler

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Oh dear, I don;t sem tave piqurd much interest. I will try again.

I seem to have lost my connection between my Dragon and Microwave. I will have to type this out by hand (which means using one finger of my right hand.)

I just finished reading a book callled 'Lamb' by Christopher Moore. An enjoyable read combining historical and Biblical fiction with fantesy, it explores the time between Jesus as a twelve-year-old, and Jesus begining his mission. It had me asking the question, 'What if?' 'What if Jesus had had the opportunity to study the principles and/or the writings of the other major religionsof his time - Buddism, Hindu, Confusism? - as well as the Hebrew scriptures? How would Jesus being able to call up this rich source of wisdom and practice as compared to seeing Jesus as the fulfillment of Hebrew prophesy?
 

Luce NDs

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Oh dear, I don;t sem tave piqurd much interest. I will try again.

I seem to have lost my connection between my Dragon and Microwave. I will have to type this out by hand (which means using one finger of my right hand.)

I just finished reading a book callled 'Lamb' by Christopher Moore. An enjoyable read combining historical and Biblical fiction with fantesy, it explores the time between Jesus as a twelve-year-old, and Jesus begining his mission. It had me asking the question, 'What if?' 'What if Jesus had had the opportunity to study the principles and/or the writings of the other major religionsof his time - Buddism, Hindu, Confusism? - as well as the Hebrew scriptures? How would Jesus being able to call up this rich source of wisdom and practice as compared to seeing Jesus as the fulfillment of Hebrew prophesy?
Wasn't that a grand story of Moor and buried illumination in the myth ... the essential Christ as put down by powerful stoics that would keep the common learners stumped? Given the duality could this be pure satyr?

Read into it ... with some extent of the deeps ... plays a part in origins of the roundabout tale of turning cheeks ... hei tallus?

Can we imagine levite awareness keeping distance ... intelligence is beyond us! Tis a stretch to catch up ...
 
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Mendalla

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Greta Thunberg

I think one thing about modern prophets like her is that they don't necessarily have to be "messengers from God". Greta has not, that I have heard, presented as religious. And my next one was a humanist, even if his language had a spiritual tinge to it at times.

Carl Sagan.

He was calling us to account for our lack of care for the world long before the current climate crisis, if perhaps more gently than some. And his efforts to educate us about our place in the universe is classic prophetic material.
 

Waterfall

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Sometimes prophecy isn't delivered by a human......right now we have nature and the animals, the planet,.....all of those things are speaking to us with great urgency and every instinct in our bodies tells us they're right but we still refuse to listen fully.
 

Luce NDs

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Is the soul, or psyche of God more intelligent? Godsol ... way far out ... beyond most of us it appears!

The darkness of the soul ... it rests while the emotions flare ... thus flat out images!
 

Seeler

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Thank you for your responses. Good choices people who are able to see the whole picture and interpret it – prophets in our time.
 

GeoFee

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At the age of thirty I stepped out of the dominant order to begin a journey of transformation. From that time I have expressed my insight specific to the trajectory of power and my encouragement specific to abandoning that trajectory. For my public actions I have been arrested and jailed by the state and I have been censured and disciplined by the Church. Those actions being wholly peaceful and directed at the injustice of the state. That injustice sanctioned by the Church.

My primary encouragement comes from the Hebrew prophets. These spoke plainly about the abuse of power and advocated reform in service to the lost, the broken and the forsaken. This insight was expressed historically while I served the community gathered to Grace Memorial United Church in East Vancouver. We gave shelter to the homeless. We fed the hungry. We clothed the naked. We encouraged the broken and the lost. This until the State, authorized by the Church, drove these human beings from the doors of Grace. I was removed from the work and forbidden to come within 3 blocks of Grace. Looking back the imagery evokes memories of Jesus arrested and his followers scattered.

There is much more to say. I will leave it there for now.
 

Luce NDs

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Those damned underprivileged ... the gods appear to be against them! It is said the devil collects all the broken ... odd observation eh?
 

unsafe

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My view -----

A prophet is one today who speaks God's Truth to others--the word Prophet comes from the Greek word ----

Strong's Concordance
prophétés: a prophet (an interpreter or forth-teller of the divine will)
Definition: a prophet (an interpreter or forth-teller of the divine will)
Usage: a prophet, poet; a person gifted at expositing divine truth.


A prophet was also called a seer as they had the ability to see the future -----

In the New Testament John the Baptist and Jesus were Prophets ----

The Bible talks about true Prophets and False Prophets -----A true Prophet of God will be committed to speaking God's truth and will never Contradict what God has revealed in his word ------


Seeler said ------How do you understand prophecy?

I see prophecy as a person being able to have knowledge of a coming future event ------it is listed as a Spiritual Gift -----1 Corinthians 12 -------in Acts 9 Ananias was given a prophecy about Paul --- In Acts 21 the daughters of Phillip could Prophesy ----In Revelation 11 it says 2 witnesses will prophesy -----

As far as today goes ---I believe we have some false prophets who have claimed to be able to Prophesy what the future holds but I know of no real Prophets today who have accurately predicted future events that will take place in the end times -----that is not saying there is not some who can --God will reveal His future plan to whoever He wants when He wants -----
 

Luce NDs

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Yet there are some crackpots that demand uniformity to the point that nothing changes so they can predict tomorrow with rules that deny quantum nature!

Everything changes ... suggesting even God changes as encompassing this factor in the integral of all-that-is! And the world turns as well as the cosmos causing a coriolis effect in the bottom of a well hole ...
 

Mendalla

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The UUs acknowledge six "Sources of our Living Tradition". The second is "Words and deeds of prophetic people which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love."

Now, they clearly aren't talking about men and women who foretell the future of have a "message from God" (though some UUs might believe that prophets have a pipeline to some form of Divinity), but about all men and women who speak truth to power or bring us profound spiritual truths. It could be anyone from Old Testament prophets to Jesus to Mohammad to Gandhi to Greta Thunberg.

My personal understanding of prophecy, and we see it a lot in the Jewish and Islamic traditions' understanding of prophecy, is bringing a message from The Divine (however one defines that) or at least bringing a profound truth/message. Foretelling what might happen if that truth is not followed and accepted is certainly a part of it, but it isn't the whole of it.

(Yes, I referred to UUs in the third person. I'm wavering again on my religious definition.)
 

GeoFee

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For years I have been intrigued by Socrates and Jesus. The whole sense of pursuing and expressing truth by word and deed. This in a context deeply compromised by error and deceit. Each is murdered as an enemy of the state.

Samuel was an early prophet in Israel. The people wanted a king like the nations. Samuel spelled out the cost of that desire to be governed externally. That cost consisting in the machinery of war and the maintenance of empire. It would lead to the oppression of the people. All the prophets following call into question the policy and practice of kings who exploit and oppress people and land. They call for a just distribution of the material good produced by human labour. This is the agenda of Jesus.

Socrates tells a little story which indicates his prophetic disposition. It is about a doctor who is on trial. He is accused by candy sellers who say he is decreasing their profits. This before a jury of children. Prophets contradict the misuse and abuse of power. They advocate for the right use of power. This rooted in the liberation of a people from their bondage in Egypt. These people undertake a refining journey. The dross rooted in a bias for material satisfaction is burned away. This bringing into clear view human being as the image of God. Looking through history of all times and places we notice many examples of God revealed in human form. Most often such persons are resisted. Many times they are silenced by murder.

God inspires and sends persons to make present prophetic. These are instructed to speak in the public square irrespective of consequence. That no one will listen is of not the prophet's failure. A prophet's success consists in satisfaction following kind truth telling in a world of cruel deceit.
 

Ritafee

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As far as today goes ---I believe we have some false prophets who have claimed to be able to Prophesy what the future holds but I know of no real Prophets today who have accurately predicted future events that will take place in the end times -----that is not saying there is not some who can --God will reveal His future plan to whoever He wants when He wants -----
I am convinced that the plan is we are supposed to be doing our part NOW and not waiting around for 'God' to do it for us.

Or we can just blow the place up ... and blame it on 'God's' plan and hope it'll all turn out right in spite of ourselves 'in the end times'.
 

Luce NDs

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Is this not all part of the impossible dream that folks can desire and process mistakes so as to improve the integral?

Sounds too dreamy for the higher ups who would put the conception down ... thus subtleties, etc.! The option virgin birth in another myth ... declared not a dream ... thus real myths!

These are far too complex for folks searching for happiness in simple excessive powers ... reasons for stuff happening are thus claimed unreasonable by simple explosions!

Dreams are this knocked out of the heavens ... and the powers know not the descent as slippery!
 

unsafe

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Ritafee -----your statement here ------I am convinced that the plan is we are supposed to be doing our part NOW and not waiting around for 'God' to do it for us.

I say -----Well you can do all your want to NOW ----God is in charge of future events NOT US --- and No Human will stop God's Plan and any humans who thinks they are bigger than God and can stop what God has planned for the future is very much deceiving themselves in my view --------
 

Luce NDs

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God is larger than we believe ... out there with wisdom that's beyond us as emotional children!

OCH m'n I'd rather know bete ... that is understand the beast of ignorance! C'est noire eh ... no awe ... just virtually unseen!

We are dipped into this pool as wash of mind ... to experience being stumped ... some have no BS of this type!

Thus that wail: "take me to the river" I need to see the inner light ... as darkness falls! Well spit in my ayes ...
 

Waterfall

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Ritafee -----your statement here ------I am convinced that the plan is we are supposed to be doing our part NOW and not waiting around for 'God' to do it for us.

I say -----Well you can do all your want to NOW ----God is in charge of future events NOT US --- and No Human will stop God's Plan and any humans who thinks they are bigger than God and can stop what God has planned for the future is very much deceiving themselves in my view --------
We are called to act on Gods behalf, just like Noah, Jonah and Jesus and so many others. We have purpose in the grand scheme of things IMO.
 

Luce NDs

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Individualism does not integrate that well ... we just don't gather well!
 
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