Obedience

crazyheart

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On another thread, I saw someone post that we should be obedient

to God. God says "Jump !" and we say, "How high?"

Where do we hear God?

Maybe it isn't God. If not God, who then?

And if we jump and end up in a fire or a deep hole, is that being obedient.

Makes my head whirl.
 

Jae

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On another thread, I saw someone post that we should be obedient

to God. God says "Jump !" and we say, "How high?"

Where do we hear God?
For me, in his Word, in the inner voice of the Spirit.

crazyheart said:
Maybe it isn't God. If not God, who then?
I believe there are many possibilities, including just us ourselves.

crazyheart said:
And if we jump and end up in a fire or a deep hole, is that being obedient.
Certainly an attempt.
 

Northwind

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I happily not very obedient. I had a boss tell me I wasn't obedient. I told her that is not something one adult should be telling another. I always say I get paid to be a s**t disturber. I look like a total rule follower and will if the rules make sense. Obedience to me is just doing as you're told. I don't do that. I also don't expect others around me to do that.
 

Mendalla

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Obedience isn't really a virtue we encourage in UU'ism. Given our roots in various Christian heresies, that is probably not a surprise. I suppose that there are UUs who are obedient to "natural law" or "God" or similar ideas. Many of us, though, hold our own conscience as the highest power in our lives and obey its dictates moreso than any external force.
 

Inannawhimsey

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Can anyone think of any facts of reality that we should "obey"? Feel free to brainstorm.
 

Pavlos Maros

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As humans we have our ethics of reciprocity, this is what we should try to be obedient/adhere too. However it gets usurped by group mentality. Beit country, team, religion, etc... However as for a "God", well there is no way you could know there is a god. So being obedient to something you cant be sure of is asinine.
Anyhow religion has got a get out clause, You just repent when you haven't obeyed. Hypocritical isn't it.
 

Luce NDs

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My grandfather said love is nothing ... if god is love and one jumps efficiently could one end up out there ... with nothing?

Some say that out there is disturbing; I ask why does the moral drive tend to put people out an off?

Is that critical thinking, as not thunk but asked, as one can knock on hollow space as hollo 'w' y'r that thou?

Hollo wyer ... a word for emptying of sol ... love of mysterious dark attributes can do that as black is indicative of absence and abstract ... the message in the messenger? Po' mice sol ... tis a small thing ...
 

Luce NDs

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@ Northwind ...

I read somewhere that god is ambiguous to the norm but some say they incarnate the image ... a drawn up thing from the shadow?

No reference given as I read far too much to recall all I've read ... but it does impact me in a strange attraction (attract torus) that some say is affinitive to that opposed by emotion ... as emotions tend to clear the sol of thought ... serves as break or schism! Hoo said Schis-am?

Some swear by this un-godly function and call it diverse methodology of the devious ... Semele as a dot-Eire of Zues? Ambiguously god likes diversity?

As Sues-la it may be Somme River in Gael territory ... yet to be crossed to Kohl the emotions ... in Les Miserables some demon plunged into it at the critical point of the myth of the law being beaten ... after that further courting in higher spaces went on ... ghosting! That story still spooks readers today ... like that white monstrosity in the dark poe-L!

Thus the story was Somme thing to contemplate for deeper rational ... it floes ...
 

Luce NDs

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Is the human psyche ambiguous ... torn between emotional and intellectual toilet?

Tis a Sous'la type of idealism to lean one way and miss the other ... thus alternate loss!

Then there is:

Which may go one Beta as Eratost hines ... a bit of a cowed expression? Bossy in that Pastor ... in abstract domains hard to tell ups from Downs ...
 
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Mendalla

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I'm pretty Obediant to the force of gravity...
Especially as I get older :cry:
That isn't really obedience, though. Obedience requires the ability to choose whether or not to obey and gravity gives us no such option. Step off the roof of your house and it's 911-time. Even some kind of s-f anti-gravity drive would likely be an extension of our knowledge of gravity, not "disobedience".

The problem, of course, is the term "law of gravity". It's a bit of an archaism from a time when scientists thought they were finding laws governing reality rather than simply describing how reality works. If Newton was around today, we'd call his major contributions to physics the "Theory of Gravity" and "Theory of Motion" (though, really, the former was superseded a century and a bit ago by Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, but I digress).

Which brings us to your second post.

Can anyone think of any facts of reality that we should "obey"? Feel free to brainstorm.
So, "Facts of reality" that we should "obey"? Depends on what you mean by "facts of reality". Most things described by science, we have no choice but to obey. There are clear, serious consequences to even trying to disobey, and that attempt will fail because of them. You can try to disobey Newton's "laws" of motion while driving you car but you'll probably end up in a ditch or wrapped around a telephone pole or something. At the very least, you'll be fighting for control of the car. Scientific "laws" aren't like "don't steal" or "don't kill" where you can choose to disobey and it's up to society to apply the consequences. Disobeying something like the theories of gravity or motion has immediate consequences, no trial and no appeal.

Now, if you consider "laws of God" to be "facts of reality", then obviously those can be disobeyed. If they couldn't, there would no sin and no need for atonement. However, I don't believe in those. There are "laws" governing how we interact with others and those can be disobeyed with consequences (e.g. mistreat someone and they will hate you) but I don't regard those as "laws of God" though they could, indeed, be "facts of reality".
 
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Luce NDs

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Is SF anti-gravity .. an imaginary thing that drives one away from emotional dippy's that we get entangled with?

Thus off shoots in abstract, dark Zoans? Einstein referred to these as dimples in space ... a warped kind of emotional plane?

Some are hell-bent to avoid it but ... intellect is just there unseen and creeping ... scares the crap out of some determinates in the not-knowing dimension ...

I'll leave them there ... mire rings in the poe'L? RIFFs ... a high end essence with ribs and you can't grasp without a turning ... and thus the facing situation ... OMA gaw'd ... that leer ...

That B'aum view can Nous a lot of heros ... some say the hart of the bottom end of social entwinement ... well scrooge 'd tis a mean extraction ... semiotic?

Some say the relief of essence of angels and daemons is evil ... a darker booty?
 
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Waterfall

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Can anyone think of any facts of reality that we should "obey"? Feel free to brainstorm.
I'm wondering if personal boundaries would qualify? We often will set limits that we refuse to allow others to manipulate us by infringing on our personal well being or even as a group. In this case possibly being respectful is a form of obedience or learned behaviour?
 
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Can anyone think of any facts of reality that we should "obey"? Feel free to brainstorm.
Civilization depends on obedience. If people didn't obey traffic laws, there would not be a reasonable expectation you could make it to Work and back. If employees didn't obey basic rules, you couldn't expect a store to be open during business hours.

Rebellious Northwind expects Jae to obey the rules of WC2.

Without people who follow rules, you could have no reasonable expectation of getting on a plane with a qualified pilot who would take you to your intended destination.

You couldn't expect to be paid for work you did.

But it's always fun to listen to liberals who pretend they live somewhere outside reality. Some higher plain. Rebels from reality. What's true for you is not true for me.
 

Luce NDs

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Rules are only guidelines ... by that singular attribute of personality that drew the line then stepped across it into the shades of the human sol ...

Tis good to release the negro blues at this point ... dark escapism of words of inky nature ... sometime prime for etude!

Others say stay away from that tri-aD .. there may be fates there ... spinning, weaving and potential of snip-peting ...
 

Northwind

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Rebellious Northwind expects Jae to obey the rules of WC2.
That is not at all true. This discussion is about obedience, not just about following rules. Of course I follow rules. I'm not blindly obedient and hopefully I use critical thinking. There is still a thing called manners and respect. Neither blind obedience nor blind rule breaking involve respect or manners.

But it's always fun to listen to liberals who pretend they live somewhere outside reality. Some higher plain. Rebels from reality. What's true for you is not true for me.
I'm really not sure how this fits with any kind of reality. Resorting to generalizations and insults to make a point is quite pathetic frankly. Seems to me that those who expect blind obedience to old rules often live by the motto "do as I say, not as I do"
 

revjohn

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crazyheart said:
On another thread, I saw someone post that we should be obedient to God.


Not really that unusual a statement is it? As a Canadian is it not expected that we obey Canadian law? When Canadians travel abroad is it not expected that they will obey the laws of whichever country themselves in? Is obedience actually problematic or is something else in play?

crazyheart said:
God says "Jump !" and we say, "How high?"
Really? We don't jump first and ask if that was good enough? Pretty brazen to ask the boss for parameters before acting.

crazyheart said:
Where do we hear God?
I hear God in "feed the hungry, protect the widow and the orphan" among other things. Was I supposed to ask how hungry, orphaned or widowed first?

crazyheart said:
Maybe it isn't God. If not God, who then?
If not God, then other than God. Being more specific would consume a great deal of time.

crazyheart said:
And if we jump and end up in a fire or a deep hole, is that being obedient.
Yes, that would be obedient. Is it wise? We'd have to see what eventually happens to the place we lept from. Could be that things were about to get much worse there. And suppose where we land is not a fire or a deep hole? What if, upon observation, we actually left the fire or the deep hole when we jumped? Would that be just as problematic for you?

crazyheart said:
Makes my head whirl.
When you are at a ball game and somebody yells "duck!" do you or do you ask them how low first? Sometimes people take their eyes off of the ball and every now and then that can make your head spin.
 
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