MAID Concerns - How Will Our Politicians Respond?

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And yet, you are telling Kay her wishes are wrong...… :mad:
I am talking about extending quality of life options.

I did not tell Kay she is wrong. I asked her a couple of questions to think about and answer and you interrupted.

Why has nobody figured out this is not about elderly with terminal or serious enough to be terminal, conditions, who do not choose options they have?

This is about the options the inconvenient and the undesirables of any age won't have!
 

Mrs.Anteater

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Honestly, I am having concerns regarding mental health as a reason for MAID. I never worked in MH, so only met patients with MH problems on regular inpatient units. I tend to think that mental health reasons are “ fixable” if you have a community that carries you and medication and a positive living environment.
But- observing people struggling with mental health- who am I to say? The suggestion to have a Psychiatrist involved in the process as mandatory could help out. With regards to that CBC article- I have never met anyone with Fibromyalgia so severe (at 29 ) that one does not want to live. Since pain does have a connection to mental health, I wonder if this is a combination. I also wonder which physician would want to do MAID on cases like that.
 

Ritafee

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I don’t think anyone is advocating for death instead of medical treatment

You seem to feel that your fears and worries about process outweigh people choosing their options

I believe palliative care is vital. And that palliative care properly given can make death bearable. But I also recognize that individuals may differ
I don't think you are looking at the bigger picture ... 'duty to die' is what is being advocated for ... IMHO.

Assisted suicide has been legal in Switzerland since the early 1940s. But suicide entrepreneurs have taken the practice to a whole new level, opening for-pay suicide clinics where people from all over the world come to die — a phenomenon known in the media as “suicide tourism.”
 

Mrs.Anteater

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There have been cases of people with brain tumour who did MAID earlier than they actually wanted, because they were afraid they would loose mental capacity. That should not be. There could be a declaration describing the exact moment at which one would want MAID to happen, even if no longer able to consent.
 

Mrs.Anteater

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Assisted suicide has been legal in Switzerland since the early 1940s. But suicide entrepreneurs have taken the practice to a whole new level, opening for-pay suicide clinics where people from all over the world come to die — a phenomenon known in the media as “suicide tourism.”
Which is clearly not an option in Canada, if you read the law.
And in Canada- if you are from another country you have to pay for all medical services. So why should other countries not charge?
 

Ritafee

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Seems to me that it isn't anyone else's business when I choose to leave. I may or may not do some palliative care first.
I agree it is no one else's business when you choose to leave ... palliative care may not be an option that you will be allowed to choose at all.
 

Ritafee

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Which is clearly not an option in Canada, if you read the law.
Laws are changing ... is that not what this thread is about ... expanding the parameters of the 'right to die with dignity' ... quickly.
 
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Yes. People looked down upon as undesirable or unproductive will feel societal pressure that they have a duty to die. The more who take up that duty, the more those who don't fit a norm will feel less worthy themselves - people will overlook that others were backed into a corner because it doesn't concern "them" - and human life will have lost value.

The Nazis also deemed certain people undesirable, an unproductive drain on society - they were able to convince normal citizens of to get on board with it - and they gave doctors and nurses a mandate to kill those people, except the ones who could do menial work for them for awhile, and conceal information about the program from their families. The only difference is the public is being led to believe everyone will have other choices. At least the German public was incensed to learn their disabled loved ones were killed. In Canada people are quietly accepting this as it progresses into a grave injustice. It's not social progress, it's very antisocial progression...or regression from human rights advances.
 
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BetteTheRed

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There is no sure thing as permanently intractable depression. If there is, I have it...but I refuse to believe it's intractable, and rather, circumstantial.
Kimmio, I have met two women in my life who had permanent intractable depression. Neither were disabled, neither had anything remotely like a "situationally" caused depression. In fact, both had apparently grown up in 'normal' families, both were in fact mildly privileged, i.e. middle- to upper middle class. One was married, one was not. Both were well educated and had decent jobs. I met both of them when they were in late middle age (50/60s). They both reported having been depressed since the onset of puberty, and having exhausted care resources, from psychiatrists to medication. At least one of the two had made a serious unsuccessful suicide attempt.

You can't apply your anecdotal situation to everyone else's and make decisions for other people based on your situation/your perception of their situation. It's the opposite of compassion.
 

Ritafee

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The only difference is the public is being led to believe everyone will have other choices.
Kind of like 'mandatory' choice to vaccinate ... if people refuse their 'duty to die' for the sake of the herd ... it will become 'mandatory'.
 
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Kimmio, I have met two women in my life who had permanent intractable depression. Neither were disabled, neither had anything remotely like a "situationally" caused depression. In fact, both had apparently grown up in 'normal' families, both were in fact mildly privileged, i.e. middle- to upper middle class. One was married, one was not. Both were well educated and had decent jobs. I met both of them when they were in late middle age (50/60s). They both reported having been depressed since the onset of puberty, and having exhausted care resources, from psychiatrists to medication. At least one of the two had made a serious unsuccessful suicide attempt.

You can't apply your anecdotal situation to everyone else's and make decisions for other people based on your situation/your perception of their situation. It's the opposite of compassion.
They're from the same backgrounds as me - I came from middle to upper middle class parents (but I was not a trust fund baby like most people here from the same background) considered by everyone around to be "normal" - except those women were older and maybe they didn't have CP. Your point is anecdotal too.

It's situational insofar as I live in this world at this time. In a different world at a better time maybe I would've avoided the onset of depression.
 
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BetteTheRed

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Your point is anecdotal too.
I'd agree, except that "intractable chronic/clinical depression" is recognized by the psychiatric profession, as you know. You were the one claiming that there is no such thing as intractable depression based on your own experience; I was using anecdotal evidence to support the psychiatric.
 

BetteTheRed

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I'd agree, except that "intractable chronic/clinical depression" is recognized by the psychiatric profession, as you know. You were the one claiming that there is no such thing as intractable depression based on your own experience; I was using anecdotal evidence to support the psychiatric.
No, even psychiatrists know that it's not 100% intractable. They make a call because they have nothing more to try available in the medical realm yet. They are not trained or paid the look at the whole picture of someone's life, either.
 
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Wrong word then. Opposite of empathy, if you take your own shoes and try and fit them on someone else's situation.

It's like "well, these size 6.5's are the most comfortable shoes I've ever owned. What, they're not comfortable on your big old size 8's?"...
No, that's what everybody else is doing to me who's trying to look out for the vulnerable in a tangible meaningful way beyond words - and point out not everyone actually has the choices you assume.
 

BetteTheRed

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If someone came to me and said "I've had 45 years of intractable emotional pain. Nothing that has ever been tried, from every drug therapy, to talk therapy, to electroshock, has ever worked. I've had it. I want out.", I just can't imagine saying, "well, maybe something will be invented in the next decade; in the meantime, I have the right to demand you live".
 

BetteTheRed

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The law demands competence. Your slippery slope implies that people have no right to say "no, don't kill me", and I just don't see that in the demand for competence.
 
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