Let's talk about sin

PilgrimsProgress

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You're just being myopic.
Pot to kettle.......

If you want a faith revival, you will need the forces of Christianity to continue down this path of right-wing populism, cutting social services in exchange for tax breaks for the wealthy. Get the poor on their knees, and increase their numbers.
I think it's naïve and simplistic to equate all of us that have a faith as being of the same mind. The fact is that those of us who describe ourselves as Christians vote for different political parties and have vastly different views on social justice views, same-sex relationships etc.

The label "Christian" incorporates vastly different interpretations. (Almost as many interpretations as there are Christians!)

I can agree with many of the things you have to say about the more extreme forms of Christianity practised, but the fact is that I label myself as a Christian and I would never vote for any party that cuts social services in exchange for tax breaks for the wealthy.
It's more accurate to blame neoliberalism for cutting down on social services -than lumping all of us who call ourselves Christians together as the culprit.
Believe you me, from my perspective, it upsets me that there are those that use the label Christian that are bigots, racists and homophobes. But the fact remains that one can't control another's interpretation of what it means to be a Christian.

That said, I do have some ideas on what may help.......
Just insulting someone's beliefs, and then expecting them to change, is unlikely to work. All that tends to do is increase your smugness and sense of superiority at their expense. We are all the products of our environment and hereditary - that is what we all have in common. People's views are more likely to change if they change their environmental factors.(The books I've read and the theologians I've met have changed my views on Christianity from orthodoxy to progressive -particularly process theology -Christianity.)
Change in environmental factors is what makes life interesting and the life journey more rewarding. I highly recommend it . Travel and experiencing different cultures and different folks with different points of view has enriched life's tapestry for me. And that's why, politically, I'm a democratic socialist, I just wish others had the same opportunities in life as I have had.
 

Waterfall

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You're just being myopic. We have problems. The people before us had problems. The people before them had problems. And objectively, if I could pick any time in history to be alive, this is a pretty good one. There are still problems, but rarely do they involve charging machine gun nests with rifles because someone ordered you to do it.

Hopelessness is a common human response to seeing no hope on the horizon. Sometimes they were even right. But to suggest that we are any worse off than any other point is beyond reasonable. This is just a sales tactic that the religious have always used to sell their faith. It is sold to those who are at their lowest, and one of the ways we know that we're not at our lowest, is that religious faith is in decline.

If you want a faith revival, you will need the forces of Christianity to continue down this path of right-wing populism, cutting social services in exchange for tax breaks for the wealthy. Get the poor on their knees, and increase their numbers. Then I'd bet you'll see a Christian revival. This is something you should totally be behind, because it would bring about exactly what you want.
Chansen said," one of the ways we know that we're not at our lowest, is that religious faith is in decline."
Does lowest mean a materialistic poverty to you?
 

Pavlos Maros

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I think it's naïve and simplistic to equate all of us that have a faith as being of the same mind.
Only in the regard that there are different religion around the world. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty you all believe in an imagined being which in and by itself is dangerous.
 

Jae

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Only in the regard that there are different religion around the world. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty you all believe in an imagined being which in and by itself is dangerous.
What's necessarily, "dangerous" about it? I believe in a God who leads me forth to love people, serve others, give til it hurts. What have you got going for you.
 

Luce NDs

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The psyche is an intuitive cloud residing somewhere in the vicinity of the brain ... so as to make eclectic connections.

The dictionary tells me that eclectic is a multi-lined concept or polytech ... ebing not restricted to a single descended lyon node ... given the network of Leis to be considered! It is an ongoing and aesthetic etude ... like complex mentality growth! There are hard liners that can't or won;t go that far ... and thus Moira's clipping of some connections! After that some high falutin fallacy!
 

Pavlos Maros

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What's necessarily, "dangerous" about it? I believe in a God who leads me forth to love people, serve others, give til it hurts. What have you got going for you.
I do good because it's good, not for any reward. Whereas you do good because you want your god to look favourably on you when you are dead. So you would do anything your god asked you to do.
 

Jae

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I do good because it's good, not for any reward. Whereas you do good because you want your god to look favourably on you when you are dead. So you would do anything your god asked you to do.
Your good is based upon what - your own subjective morality which can change at your whim. Shaky ground to be sure. I follow God in the here and now, and God blesses me in the here and now, as God so chooses. I do good because I love God and believe God's way is best.
 

Mendalla

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your own subjective morality which can change at your whim
Not necessarily. There are many philosophical approaches to developing morality through logic and even science (did you know science is increasingly of the view, based on various studies in various species, that altruism has an evolutionary advantage?). Some are better than others. And, from an atheist standpoint, religious morality is just as subjective and using a claim of authority to try to push that subjective morality over others. Let's not also forget that there are very few agreements among all religious people about what is "good" which makes any claim of moral objectivity suspect. If God is telling the religious what is good, why is there so much disagreement among them about what God is saying? Because, IME, religious people are often bringing their own prejudices to bear and slapping "God" on as a rationalization for them.
 

Luce NDs

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One must admit the love-god is a finicky essence ... yet when the wisdom god impacts you with a burning message ... it could burn through anything ... thus the smudge, or smoor may be something to bank on ... that's the word inscribed! Read into it for layers of eclectics!

Imagine a god of ration ... right out of mind one giving info and intellect in small schitz ... as mortals won;t take too much at once ... wisdom being overwhelming as some of Andrew Greely's characters in novels like Angel Fire ... potentially a metaphor for some totally opposing essence ... conflict in the mitochondrial genetics? There are these gates called opioid receptors ... extremely complex their doings and function ... for the baffling of isolated attributes like mankind ... much fuzz may accrue as consequence of the second 1 ... rendered down to BUN!

Word is like that ... often roled and roll'dab out!
 
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Jae

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Not necessarily. There are many philosophical approaches to developing morality through logic and even science (did you know science is increasingly of the view, based on various studies in various species, that altruism has an evolutionary advantage?).
I believe there are myriad philosophies in which people hide from God. Human nature has been corrupted by tricks, by disobedience to God. They've brought a curse upon humanity - the notion that one can be good without God.

Mendalla said:
If God is telling the religious what is good, why is there so much disagreement among them about what God is saying? Because, IME, religious people are often bringing their own prejudices to bear and slapping "God" on as a rationalization for them.
God's Word, I hold, stands firm as being the source of objective morality. What can fluctuate is our understanding of that morality.
 

Luce NDs

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The eclectic one-track that goes astray from the termination of John ... that confesses there are tomes right out of this world due to spatial mortalities (limitations in space, time and light) ... due to thick objectives?

It is said that imagination is even good when working with kin ... I Sues the parable for all you can squeeze from it ... thus Jew Cinnabar! Bloody awesome compared to azure expectations ... and much horn blow 'n activity!

Enigma ... when dark things are placed in explicits ... nig t'us! The "n" word may transpose to ETA ... sans nighty ... or negligent of thin cover-up ... filmy noires .. as black is nowhere according to absolute terms of absence! Imagine wee people in the undergrowth of a mysterious continent! Up north these may have been Sami's for all we know ... which is curtailed and limited by emotional loss ... the Emotional-Intellectuals hostility ... or EIS as hostility is summed up as cosmological dissonance ... an arch type of Eris 'n rackets in the dark ... and Eda mon was the disposed (Cana Ba'aL-ized) island ... sometimes considered isolated Maan!

Stripped of whatever "chi" got out of the effort ... the one on fire (Anna Marah)? The abstract evolution does have its dark zones and ζ-ion aerei ahs ... when watching a man's antics! Emotions can get one really warped ... imagine ghost vessels ... empty sleeves and chivers! Eros departed ...
 
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Mendalla

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The key to your whole response is belief in an unprovable (two unprovables, really): That God exists and that his sole true Word is found in the Bible.

There have been many good people who have not embraced your version of God and even some who didn't believe in a God at all. There have also been some real s**ts who embraced views of God similar to, if not the same as, yours. If faith in God leads to morality, the evidence of that is a bit skimpy historically.

Anyhow, I've just been through the whole "can we be good without God" discussion on another board (my erotic writing site, oddly) so I'm a bit burned out on it. Have fun.
 

Luce NDs

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The key to your whole response is belief in an unprovable (two unprovables, really): That God exists and that his sole true Word is found in the Bible.

There have been many good people who have not embraced your version of God and even some who didn't believe in a God at all. There have also been some real s**ts who embraced views of God similar to, if not the same as, yours. If faith in God leads to morality, the evidence of that is a bit skimpy historically.

Anyhow, I've just been through the whole "can we be good without God" discussion on another board (my erotic writing site, oddly) so I'm a bit burned out on it. Have fun.
The E nig Maw developes another hole ... spatial consequence of a formed hiding place for embarrassments ... everything will come back up in a wiki 'd turn of events ... consider the uncovering of Trojans Myth ... holy horse ... or Mare 've Delight ... Black Beauty? She Nan Doah ... casting a mist over the hills ...
 

Waterfall

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I do good because it's good, not for any reward. Whereas you do good because you want your god to look favourably on you when you are dead. So you would do anything your god asked you to do.
Or perhaps an observer changes everything? Welcome to the world of Quantum Mechanics and the Double Slit Experiment. Why does being watched change everything in this experiment?
Video is about 5 minutes and it's at the end where things get weird.

 

Luce NDs

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Or perhaps an observer changes everything? Welcome to the world of Quantum Mechanics and the Double Slit Experiment. Why does being watched change everything in this experiment?
Video is about 5 minutes and it's at the end where things get weird.

That Big Brother peeking over your shoulder sensation ... because of depth vision! May cause interference patterns on the pool of mind ... there are stories and myths of such excursions and adventures! Why stories?

Cause you can't get int the greater mind from here ... even if you lie about it like some displaced tyrants ... life is indeed weird ... behave so as to fit in and the residents won't develop into insanity because of functioning beside different folk!

May be the basis of some disorders of psychopathy ... fear of being discovered!

Some ruminants and other animals have eyes with vertical slots ... camels ... don't forget the camels if smoking it in an arid zone ...
 

PilgrimsProgress

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I do good because it's good, not for any reward. Whereas you do good because you want your god to look favourably on you when you are dead. So you would do anything your god asked you to do.
I'm a Christian -a follower of the way -and I do good because it's good. I have no idea what will happen to me when I'm dead beyond a shy hope of an afterlife. I don't believe in a controlling God who tells me what to do.

Perhaps you would benefit from asking yourself why is it that you only acknowledge a literal understanding of Christianity/Christians? Perhaps you have a need to win arguments and always be "right"?
 
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PilgrimsProgress

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Anyhow, I've just been through the whole "can we be good without God" discussion on another board (my erotic writing site, oddly) so I'm a bit burned out on it. Have fun.
I'm intrigued -a discussion about God on an erotic writing site. God does indeed move in mysterious ways. ;)
 

Mendalla

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I'm intrigued -a discussion about God on an erotic writing site. God does indeed move in mysterious ways. ;)
The forums have a section for social and political discussions called the Think Tank (mostly to keep them out of the other forums, I suspect). I rarely go in because it is mostly political BS that generates more heat than light but there is the odd philosophical or religious discussion that catches my interest.
 

Mendalla

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Or perhaps an observer changes everything? Welcome to the world of Quantum Mechanics and the Double Slit Experiment. Why does being watched change everything in this experiment?
Video is about 5 minutes and it's at the end where things get weird.

The problem is that taking a quantum approach to moral and ethical issues is what gets us into charges of moral relativism. If we accept that different observers see things differently depending on their frame of reference, does that mean they are all "correct" within their frame of reference? What about Paul Bernardo or a neo-Nazi?
 
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