Let's talk about sin

PilgrimsProgress

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It needs to stop assuming it has all the answers for all the people. It needs to sit down collectively and figure out why it's been such a colossal failure of late.
I wouldn't presume to talk for all people, but I can honestly say that my faith and understanding of Christianity (Love God and love neighbour) has been a colossal bonus in my life.
It's rather nice to love folks ..............

That said, my faith and understanding of Christianity differs hugely from more traditional and fundamentalist beliefs of Christianity.
 

Ritafee

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You do like to try and pass the buck Rita. Lol.
Most governments started out not so much a democracy, but a theocracy. You are not condemning Chansens point, but making it.
What is one common denominator of governments and religions ?

LAWS. 'Man'-Made LAWS.

PS. Another common 'denominator' would be 'mammon/money'.

PPS. Common Sense ... Sin or Crime?
 
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Jae

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Do you think that original sin makes sense? Are we born sinful, because of Adam and Eve's behaviour?
Original sin makes sense to me, and I believe that we are born sinful because of our first ancestors' transgression.

PilgrimsProgress said:
As well as individual acts of sin, is there social or group, or political sins?
Yes, I believe that there are.

PilgrimsProgress said:
Are you happy with loaded words such as sin and evil - or would you use the term "missing the mark", or "estranged from God"?
I use such words as, "sin," "evil," and "estranged from God." It depends on the context.
 
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This puts things into perspective for me as to how you regard Christianity/Jesus/religion, (and probably most unbelievers), that's fine, it's honest.
I personally see Jesus as more than a political figure, although he certainly went against the grain many times when his teachings clashed with political activity.
Yes, there have been many people throughout history who stand out with their activism and good deeds, and yet we don't build churches to honour them (maybe a statue or special day) or create a religion around them. Many of them are politically motivated figures, but usually the most outstanding are the ones who are also motivated through their spirituality.
With Jesus, I see God through him....his spirituality and teachings encourage me to look at the world in a radically different way and to give more importance to my spiritual side as the leading motivator for my actions and understanding of how to approach life in general. While I see Jesus as being ordained by God, most Christians believe he IS God.....either way, he sets the highest standard to look up to and through his teachings he offers hope and peace in a restless and chaotic world and even beyond. We are encouraged to open our eyes to others and to be aware.... and being part of God's church (hopefully) continuously points us towards the need to help others, pray for guidance and to be grateful for what we have through God's blessings and grace.
These days I see a highly chaotic world emerging as God becomes less of a priority in peoples lives and the focus on prayer is lost.
To me, thinking in the abstract...Jesus is a part of them and they (everyone who has been oppressed or suffered, is part of them. And I think that’s why Christianity survives.
 
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To me, thinking in the abstract...Jesus is a part of them and they (everyone who has been oppressed or suffered, is part of them. And I think that’s why Christianity survives.
*To me, thinking in the abstract...Jesus is a part of them and they (everyone who has been oppressed or suffered, is part of Jesus.
 

Luce NDs

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Jesus is a Levite concept ... to those that don;t wish to know how they became so guilty ... they affiliate with the Hebrew Unknown God ... a vast formless sense of shadowy folk ... leviathan?

In the world of word there are some big poorly known examples ... check out the Welsh Tongue!
 

Luce NDs

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What you hear of information about de Light of Christianity is shadowed by the force of loss of thought! That's the flaming emotions causing ochre! Burnt land theology?
 

Ritafee

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Christians can't agree on that. I'm fine with anything from fans of the fictional character of Jesus through the extreme nutcase believers.
So basically anyone that does not fly under the 'professing atheists' radar then.
 

chansen

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So basically anyone that does not fly under the 'professing atheists' radar then.
If someone says they are a Christian for any of the above reasons, I'm fine with that. I don't try to police the term.

Now, sometimes you'll get people like Blackbelt who insist Christians who wear yarmulkes are "Messianic Jews", which is pretty funny way of trying to co-opt Judaism by Christians. You'll also find those who insist they are simply in a "relationship with Jesus", which is even better than Messianic Jews (if such a thing is possible).

They're Christians. I'm fine with that.

If you don't believe any of the above and you don't believe any other claim about a deity, then you're an atheist, whether you want to admit it or not. As soon as you don't believe in any such claim, then that's simply what you are. Atheists who shun the term are just scared of religious propaganda against atheists or don't want to associate with other atheists. But lots of Christians don't want to associate with other Christians, either.
 

Ritafee

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If you don't believe any of the above and you don't believe any other claim about a deity, then you're an atheist, whether you want to admit it or not.
Do you 'believe' that you are 'in a word' 'atheist'? Is that your 'final word'?

Further to 'words sake' by the authority invested in 'me being' by the 'all being' I am that I am being.

Sin ... deceiving into believing that 'legalizing' being in the wrong makes it being in the right.
 

chansen

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Do you 'believe' that you are 'in a word' 'atheist'? Is that your 'final word'?

Further to 'words sake' by the authority invested in 'me being' by the 'all being' I am that I am being.

Sin ... deceiving into believing that 'legalizing' being in the wrong makes it being in the right.
Are you *sure* you're getting all the nutrients your body needs?
 

chansen

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I'm disappointed this post of mine got left behind. I thought it was quite good, so I'm reposting it below:

As an atheist you will have a large population of unbelievers to denounce that will get your back up and you will want to appear separate from them because you may not agree with the rhetoric they espouse.
I don't have a plurality of atheists to oppose. It's a plurality of Christians who are on the wrong side of history.

I mean, where are the atheist-lead groups we are opposing? Which atheists would you have me rebuke?

Want a corresponding list of Christians? What about the Yellow Vesters in Canada? What about the Americans calling for violence if Trump is impeached? I mean, find me an atheist white supremacist group. Because you know I can find Christian white supremacists by the bucket full.

By a shared faith, you are attached to a fearful group of Christians who see their influence in decline and are freaking out. They are easily lead by others. They are quick to find scapegoats and latch on to conspiracy theories, and they are conditioned to believe these things on authority or by suspicion because their faith uses the same techniques.

If these people were mostly atheists, I'd be losing it on them. They aren't. They're mostly Christians.

I will stand by my comment, the world is becoming more chaotic and Gods message is needed.
Complete bulls**t. You're just conditioned to say that, like a door-to-door salesman. When the book was more popular, we were even worse off than we are now. Basic history tells us that you're wrong about chaos and fear. I'm not suggesting everything is great - far from it - but we've been through worse. We've killed millions at a time in wars and lost millions at a time in plagues, in times when we believed almost universally.
 

Luce NDs

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Belief is concrete ... and yet the abstract is said to be non-concrete and thus more moving and broad spread as a god essence out of touch with the hard stones!

Just research the meaning of the word abstract ... a fuzzy concept! (something to do with the darkness of sol) Thus mysterious powers gave us the powers of night! Moses was led by a cloudy pillar ...
 

Waterfall

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I'm disappointed this post of mine got left behind. I thought it was quite good, so I'm reposting it below:


I don't have a plurality of atheists to oppose. It's a plurality of Christians who are on the wrong side of history.

I mean, where are the atheist-lead groups we are opposing? Which atheists would you have me rebuke?

Want a corresponding list of Christians? What about the Yellow Vesters in Canada? What about the Americans calling for violence if Trump is impeached? I mean, find me an atheist white supremacist group. Because you know I can find Christian white supremacists by the bucket full.

By a shared faith, you are attached to a fearful group of Christians who see their influence in decline and are freaking out. They are easily lead by others. They are quick to find scapegoats and latch on to conspiracy theories, and they are conditioned to believe these things on authority or by suspicion because their faith uses the same techniques.

If these people were mostly atheists, I'd be losing it on them. They aren't. They're mostly Christians.


Complete bulls**t. You're just conditioned to say that, like a door-to-door salesman. When the book was more popular, we were even worse off than we are now. Basic history tells us that you're wrong about chaos and fear. I'm not suggesting everything is great - far from it - but we've been through worse. We've killed millions at a time in wars and lost millions at a time in plagues, in times when we believed almost universally.
I believe I recall you saying that you prefer this site over atheist sites because you found those sites, (can't recall the word you used), but more or less, less tolerant of those that don't think like themselves?
 

chansen

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I believe I recall you saying that you prefer this site over atheist sites because you found those sites, (can't recall the word you used), but more or less, less tolerant of those that don't think like themselves?
No, I've been consistent that I don't like atheist sites because they're just a bunch of people slapping each other on the back for coming to a reasonable conclusion. It's pointless and boring.

And it's not that I'm intolerant of your beliefs, as much as I'm intolerant of you insisting that we need God now because the world is becoming more fearful and chaotic. That's ridiculous. Tell that to Canadians 100 years ago, after WW1 claimed many of their sons and they were still in the middle of the Spanish flu pandemic. I mean, what kind of response to that claim do you want? It's ignorant and preposterous.
 

Waterfall

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No, I've been consistent that I don't like atheist sites because they're just a bunch of people slapping each other on the back for coming to a reasonable conclusion. It's pointless and boring.

And it's not that I'm intolerant of your beliefs, as much as I'm intolerant of you insisting that we need God now because the world is becoming more fearful and chaotic. That's ridiculous. Tell that to Canadians 100 years ago, after WW1 claimed many of their sons and they were still in the middle of the Spanish flu pandemic. I mean, what kind of response to that claim do you want? It's ignorant and preposterous.
Actually wasn't thinking about wars, more how drugs, alcohol, suicide and anxieties have become more prominent in (young) peoples lives (especially N. America).....seems to be an increasing percentage of people that have lost purpose or a sense of well being.....hopelessness?
 

chansen

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You're just being myopic. We have problems. The people before us had problems. The people before them had problems. And objectively, if I could pick any time in history to be alive, this is a pretty good one. There are still problems, but rarely do they involve charging machine gun nests with rifles because someone ordered you to do it.

Hopelessness is a common human response to seeing no hope on the horizon. Sometimes they were even right. But to suggest that we are any worse off than any other point is beyond reasonable. This is just a sales tactic that the religious have always used to sell their faith. It is sold to those who are at their lowest, and one of the ways we know that we're not at our lowest, is that religious faith is in decline.

If you want a faith revival, you will need the forces of Christianity to continue down this path of right-wing populism, cutting social services in exchange for tax breaks for the wealthy. Get the poor on their knees, and increase their numbers. Then I'd bet you'll see a Christian revival. This is something you should totally be behind, because it would bring about exactly what you want.
 
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