Let's talk about sin

Luce NDs

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Is non consensual discussion enough to make many students of literature avoid speaking thereof of what they read intuit?

Paralleles intercourse and disassembling activity! It may be a state when the powerful fall apart!
 

Luce NDs

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If god is everything ... what is it like to be against everything ... developing island mentality as if isolationist? Variation of narcism ... a social convention that may be communicable!

Thus hatefulness spreads as an angst!
 

Mendalla

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Sigh. I suppose the omnibus bill that was supposed to amend this out of existence stalled and died on the order paper or something. Such a simple change, too. Repeal the whole section and let anal sex be treated like any other sex act (for which the age of consent is 16 with allowance for both parties being under that age).

Which brings up an on topic thought: No one's idea of "sin" should be informing our laws. They should be based on what keeps a society civil (e.g. laws against murder or other violence against others), not what someone thinks is "against God".
 

BetteTheRed

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Which brings up an on topic thought: No one's idea of "sin" should be informing our laws. They should be based on what keeps a society civil (e.g. laws against murder or other violence against others), not what someone thinks is "against God".
And which brings us also around to the "seven generations" ideal of "God's wishes". God's wishes are everything that brings long term blessings. Today I heard a sad story about how our old houses in my old neighbourhood are perceived: too small, with an inefficiently large yard/outdoor space.
 

Ritafee

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Sigh. I suppose the omnibus bill that was supposed to amend this out of existence stalled and died on the order paper or something. Such a simple change, too. Repeal the whole section and let anal sex be treated like any other sex act (for which the age of consent is 16 with allowance for both parties being under that age).

Which brings up an on topic thought: No one's idea of "sin" should be informing our laws. They should be based on what keeps a society civil (e.g. laws against murder or other violence against others), not what someone thinks is "against God".
Now you sound like Chansen ...

The wording of Section 159 as it stands in the Criminal Code does not use the words sin or God.

Actions that are alleged to be crimes in the criminal codes are often alleged to be sins in the biblical codes.

Ancient 'biblical annals of sin' or modern 'civilized annals of crime' - Re-visions a-bound!
 

chansen

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Nothing. Jesus is a metaphor for all people who suffer and die unnecessarily due to systemic 'sin'. Matthew chapter, "and whatever you do to/for the least of these, you do to me". Hunger, nakedness, imprisonment, loneliness, homelessness, are all failures of the 'system', not individual failings.
This.........
How the hell is that supposed to draw people to church, when he's just a guy?

Look at how the news cycle moved on from the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. When a normal, everyday person gets killed by a government, everyone gets concerned for 2 weeks, then they forget.

You think you have a symbolic representative, but all you've got is the claim that you know about one guy who got murdered by the state 2000 years ago. And it's a pretty iffy claim.
 

Waterfall

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How the hell is that supposed to draw people to church, when he's just a guy?

Look at how the news cycle moved on from the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. When a normal, everyday person gets killed by a government, everyone gets concerned for 2 weeks, then they forget.

You think you have a symbolic representative, but all you've got is the claim that you know about one guy who got murdered by the state 2000 years ago. And it's a pretty iffy claim.
This puts things into perspective for me as to how you regard Christianity/Jesus/religion, (and probably most unbelievers), that's fine, it's honest.
I personally see Jesus as more than a political figure, although he certainly went against the grain many times when his teachings clashed with political activity.
Yes, there have been many people throughout history who stand out with their activism and good deeds, and yet we don't build churches to honour them (maybe a statue or special day) or create a religion around them. Many of them are politically motivated figures, but usually the most outstanding are the ones who are also motivated through their spirituality.
With Jesus, I see God through him....his spirituality and teachings encourage me to look at the world in a radically different way and to give more importance to my spiritual side as the leading motivator for my actions and understanding of how to approach life in general. While I see Jesus as being ordained by God, most Christians believe he IS God.....either way, he sets the highest standard to look up to and through his teachings he offers hope and peace in a restless and chaotic world and even beyond. We are encouraged to open our eyes to others and to be aware.... and being part of God's church (hopefully) continuously points us towards the need to help others, pray for guidance and to be grateful for what we have through God's blessings and grace.
These days I see a highly chaotic world emerging as God becomes less of a priority in peoples lives and the focus on prayer is lost.
 

chansen

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The world was a bigger mess when everyone believed. We sent millions to die needlessly in trenches in WW1, while both sides prayed furiously. Suggesting we are in some downward spiral in lockstep with the secularization of society is just bulls**t. We arc off in bad directions, but eventually we try to set the path right again, often pushing against the faithful.

How, when we are fighting against Christians for things like equal marriage and action on climate change, can you be thinking that God being "less of a priority" is the problem today?!?!? It wasn't non-believers who did things like vote for Donald Trump or Doug Ford. This rash of right-wing populism is fueled by Christians. It boggles the mind that you even entertain this thought.

There are no "good ole days" of religious faith. The Christian bigots harken back for a time when they could be bigots and be proud of it. Those aren't the good ole days either. Christianity hasn't been a leading force for making the world better for hundreds of years.
 

Waterfall

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The world was a bigger mess when everyone believed. We sent millions to die needlessly in trenches in WW1, while both sides prayed furiously. Suggesting we are in some downward spiral in lockstep with the secularization of society is just bulls**t. We arc off in bad directions, but eventually we try to set the path right again, often pushing against the faithful.

How, when we are fighting against Christians for things like equal marriage and action on climate change, can you be thinking that God being "less of a priority" is the problem today?!?!? It wasn't non-believers who did things like vote for Donald Trump or Doug Ford. This rash of right-wing populism is fueled by Christians. It boggles the mind that you even entertain this thought.

There are no "good ole days" of religious faith. The Christian bigots harken back for a time when they could be bigots and be proud of it. Those aren't the good ole days either. Christianity hasn't been a leading force for making the world better for hundreds of years.
You're right, "Christianity" doesn't always align itself with what Jesus taught....people often steer toward those who preach something else that aligns more with the world's politicians rather than a message that doesn't include wars or prejudice. Politicians have known for eons that if they can assimilate fear into the faith (and twist the words and purpose of the Bible) of the people they can manipulate the people, for their own purpose. Even those countries that claim to be more atheist will find themselves manipulated by politicians through politics and "reason", to achieve their new found goals of demonizing immigration for example (even if displaced people show up at their doors for human protection from inhumane governments). No one gets a free pass for messing up.
As an atheist you will have a large population of unbelievers to denounce that will get your back up and you will want to appear separate from them because you may not agree with the rhetoric they espouse.
I will stand by my comment, the world is becoming more chaotic and Gods message is needed.
 

Ritafee

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How, when we are fighting against Christians for things like equal marriage and action on climate change, can you be thinking that God being "less of a priority" is the problem today?!?!? It wasn't non-believers who did things like vote for Donald Trump or Doug Ford. This rash of right-wing populism is fueled by Christians. It boggles the mind that you even entertain this thought.
“I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed, without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today – my own government.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.
 

Pavlos Maros

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You do like to try and pass the buck Rita. Lol.
Most governments started out not so much a democracy, but a theocracy. You are not condemning Chansens point, but making it.
 

chansen

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As an atheist you will have a large population of unbelievers to denounce that will get your back up and you will want to appear separate from them because you may not agree with the rhetoric they espouse.
I don't have a plurality of atheists to oppose. It's a plurality of Christians who are on the wrong side of history.

I mean, where are the atheist-lead groups we are opposing? Which atheists would you have me rebuke?

Want a corresponding list of Christians? What about the Yellow Vesters in Canada? What about the Americans calling for violence if Trump is impeached? I mean, find me an atheist white supremacist group. Because you know I can find Christian white supremacists by the bucket full.

By a shared faith, you are attached to a fearful group of Christians who see their influence in decline and are freaking out. They are easily lead by others. They are quick to find scapegoats and latch on to conspiracy theories, and they are conditioned to believe these things on authority or by suspicion because their faith uses the same techniques.

If these people were mostly atheists, I'd be losing it on them. They aren't. They're mostly Christians.



I will stand by my comment, the world is becoming more chaotic and Gods message is needed.
Complete bulls**t. You're just conditioned to say that, like a door-to-door salesman. When the book was more popular, we were even worse off than we are now. Basic history tells us that you're wrong about chaos and fear. I'm not suggesting everything is great - far from it - but we've been through worse. We've killed millions at a time in wars and lost millions at a time in plagues, in times when we believed almost universally.
 

BetteTheRed

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By a shared faith, you are attached to a fearful group of Christians who see their influence in decline and are freaking out.
I don't think we're talking about a shared faith, but a shared label.

And I don't know that is any sort of a reason to abandon a faith journey - because some of your fellow travellers are idiots. No religion is exempt from having a large number of idiots behaving badly, but all have kernels of great good. Some of the greatest movements in modern history have been led by religious people - Desmond Tutu, MLK Jr., Gandhi. Some of the current eco movement is also led by religious people - the late Thomas Berry, Michael Dowd. I think you have to be a bit discerning about who you are using as role models. And who you choose as leaders. I look at Richard Bott and think we (the UCC) are demonstrating some pretty keen discernment.
 

Waterfall

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I don't have a plurality of atheists to oppose. It's a plurality of Christians who are on the wrong side of history.

I mean, where are the atheist-lead groups we are opposing? Which atheists would you have me rebuke?

Want a corresponding list of Christians? What about the Yellow Vesters in Canada? What about the Americans calling for violence if Trump is impeached? I mean, find me an atheist white supremacist group. Because you know I can find Christian white supremacists by the bucket full.

By a shared faith, you are attached to a fearful group of Christians who see their influence in decline and are freaking out. They are easily lead by others. They are quick to find scapegoats and latch on to conspiracy theories, and they are conditioned to believe these things on authority or by suspicion because their faith uses the same techniques.

If these people were mostly atheists, I'd be losing it on them. They aren't. They're mostly Christians.




Complete bulls**t. You're just conditioned to say that, like a door-to-door salesman. When the book was more popular, we were even worse off than we are now. Basic history tells us that you're wrong about chaos and fear. I'm not suggesting everything is great - far from it - but we've been through worse. We've killed millions at a time in wars and lost millions at a time in plagues, in times when we believed almost universally.
I'm remembering the mythical story of Jonah and the whale. God wanted Jonah to go to Nineveh (part of Assyria) in order to give the people an opportunity to change and repent for all the killing they had done to other nations. But Jonah didn't want them to repent, he wanted blood and for them to be destroyed for what they'd done, so he went somewhere else instead because he disagreed with God......until he was led back by God to Nineveh within a large fish (which happens to be a symbol within Christianity)

Chansen, what is it you want for Christianity? Do you want it to be destroyed or do you hope for our repentance? Repentance can bring the good back into the light. And yes there is a lot to repent for.
 
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chansen

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I think Christianity needs to sit in a corner for a century or two. It needs to stop assuming it has all the answers for all the people. It needs to sit down collectively and figure out why it's been such a colossal failure of late. And it needs to police itself better for all of the above.

But mostly, I think it would be great if Christianity ceased to be popular and a political force. If it were just another relatively small belief system, that would be great. It's heading that way, just not fast enough.

In the interim, everyone is supposed to say nice things about faith, all faith, while some will try to paint non-faith as somehow lacking. I will not say nice things about faith where they are unwarranted, and I will not refrain from pointing out the stupid and the hateful about faith even though there is still social pressure to stay quiet about those things in "polite company". I think laughter at the expense of religion is the best savior of all.
 

Ritafee

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I think Christianity needs to sit in a corner for a century or two. It needs to stop assuming it has all the answers for all the people. It needs to sit down collectively and figure out why it's been such a colossal failure of late. And it needs to police itself better for all of the above.
Define Christianity.
 
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