Let's talk about sin

chansen

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To define something as a "sin" or "evil" or "good" for that matter, one must look at the impacts of the choice seven generations into the future
"Sin" is not synonymous with good or evil. And measuring the effect of something to determine it's effects is not taking instruction from God or his writing staff. "Sin" is its own mythical animal.

If you want to find what is life-affirming, absolutely, look at long term effects. Where does God say to measure long term effects? Only our common sense says that.
 

Ritafee

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A sin tax is levied on specific products deemed harmful to society (like alcohol products, including wine, beer, and spirits, as well as cigarettes and tobacco products, as well as gambling). Sin taxes are typically applied in an effort to control or reduce the use and consumption of these products, as well as to increase government tax revenues by identifying new sources of revenue. The rationale for these taxes is simple: increasing a sin tax on these "harmful" products is often more popular to citizens than increasing other taxes, such as sales or income taxes. With the legalization of marijuana in Canada in the future, citizens can expect this product to be excessively taxed as a new form of sin tax on consumers. The same could be expected if prostitution were legalized and taxed in Canada.
 
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Ritafee

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You need to strip "sin" of it's legitimacy, because it has none. Mocking it and tearing it down is how you fight ideas like this that were not founded on reason and are immune to it.
Try that defense in a statist religion court of law.
 

BetteTheRed

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How do you differentiate between "sin" and "evil", chansen? Aren't they interrelated concepts?
 

chansen

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"Sin" is meaningless to me. Breaking God's laws is less worrisome than jaywalking across an empty street. Besides, the things listed as "sins" are not all bad - they're a random collection of things that lay out the case that this God, if he exists, is just an a**hole.

"Evil" to me is more universally unacceptable for reasons of harm.
 

chansen

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Try that defense in a statist religion court of law.
If you don't like the laws of the state, you can try to enact change. Try that with the bible, which has more insane laws than the state.

It's not easy, but reason can work with people. It can work with laws. It can't work against established religion. You can't change the book now. The best you can do is work to diminish it.
 

PilgrimsProgress

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sin" or "evil" or "good" for that matter, one must look at the impacts of the choice seven generations into the future. For example, if we simply, as a world, just watch the current extinction and climate crises without making any attempts at mitigation, I suspect that seven generations out, if we make it that far, our apathy will be judged as evil.
So, you see sin as social/political - not just concerned with individual's sin?

Perhaps Pentecostals etc. prefer "individual" sins - because it's somewhat easier to manage allowing folks in that country club in the sky as individuals than entire political voters/members?
 

PilgrimsProgress

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To be serious for a moment, everything points to "sin" being a religious invention to make you feel bad. By equating lust, envy, laziness, and fighting with your parents with murder, extortion, fraud, and listening to Nickelback, the aim appears to be to make people feel bad about their human nature.

The goal is to emotionally beat you up, to make you feel unworthy, to make you feel like a "sinner". Because everyone does many of the above, or whatever list of Christian "sins" you can compile.
I like it when you're serious -even if it doesn't last long...... ;)

I'd like to, respectfully, present a different point of view.
The Bible is a book, an object that was written by humans - not God or Jesus.
It has been suggested that the words are inspired by God. I think that belief is erroneous. (That's not so say that there are those - including myself - who gain inspiration from how we interpret some (but not all) verses.)

Time for an analogy - (I'm rather fond of analogies!).
The Bible is an object. The game of Snakes and Ladders is a board-game -also an object.
I happen to think it's how you use these two objects that matters most.

You are free to read the Bible and see others as sinners and unworthy of The Great Reward of Eternal Life - but you, righteous you, are promised a membership for eternity.
When these folks play Snakes and Ladders they think the snakes are for others, not them. It's ladders upward only. You better not move on the board when it's not your turn - because these folks, whilst ignoring their own snakes, are busy pointing out every time you make a wrong move.

Then there are other folks who take out the board on a rainy day to enjoy some time spent with family/friends. They have drinks and munchies, laugh a lot, and aren't too bothered if they don't win, because they are understand it's about enjoying each others company. It's not the game, it's the relating to each other with brotherly love that is the main attraction.
That's how I see the Bible -it's a game with it's ultimate focus on Jesus's two Commandments - to love God and love neighbour.
And what's wrong with that as a game to play for life? If everyone played it there's be no poverty, no wars, just justice, peace and love.

Then there are the atheists who just see a board game. They don't want to play the game, they just want to muck up the game for the other players. They're very good at it, it must be said, but they leave the room in a mess. as picking up the pieces isn't their style.
 

Luce NDs

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We've been working through a Michael Dowd DVD series on Tuesday nights and he has some interesting concepts of "sin".

To define something as a "sin" or "evil" or "good" for that matter, one must look at the impacts of the choice seven generations into the future. For example, if we simply, as a world, just watch the current extinction and climate crises without making any attempts at mitigation, I suspect that seven generations out, if we make it that far, our apathy will be judged as evil. Similarly, looking at the past, Residental Schools had plenty of justification in the eye of politicians and policy-makers. Four or so generations out, I think we can be quite convinced that those schools and that justification were "sinful".
Isn't justification part of the salvation route ... just prior to sanctification ... when one is fully sanc or past-sunk?
 

Luce NDs

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In the light of love (christ being the light and love being the mystery) during the onset of love as a mystery ... is this an ideal time to lose it?

Mysteriously thoughts disappear during emotional moments ... instants of temporary craziness ...

Some folks say craziness and insanity cannot be judged by common folk or common sense ... high chance when the role models raise questions about the sanctified fluidity ... there the stones SET!

SET being and Egyptian god ... like mortar and mortalization is temporal!

Ever get that mortal sensation ...? That's life ... when love appears as a black-out or blanket effect ... beachy?
 

Luce NDs

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The best way to avoid sin is to eliminate it through the way it is laid out as a lie beyond the book ... but generally ignored in common sense!

It is an enigma to overcome once you grasp the conned text! There are corruptive powers that support the con ...

The partisan underground is extensively out of sight ... below the horizon ... in essence! Read into For Whom the Bell Tolls ... here hides the dead ringer ...

Clap trap ... cheer on what is past/passed! Something gone by to learn from ... one has to get beyond the present instants ... a job of timely mechanizations ... complex? They seem to operate and function in a whirr!

I see dark clouds like Joe BLTZFX haunting! A cast of extracted light in levity? Dark hue Muse ... rare and aerie grasp!

One must be fractionally out of it ... or in other words beyond the box!

Ephraim de words are flighty ... sometimes fey!

The 2 way trappist?
 
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Luce NDs

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VANC is said by one source to stand for "voice activated network control" ... is inscribed in writ ... some can't 've herd it and this the group runs off ... de civilized?

Ungathered one may have mist this at Delphi as a tough staph infection!
 

Luce NDs

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I have this extensive enigma ... God is eternally out there if the reference is contain all there is as sole integral!

This is a complex concept to those devoted to simplicity in all things ... thus thoughts are lost in some instants of impulse!

May take a long time to get around the entire/whole thing as al leg aura yea! Thus po' ET ihc license ... God needs assistance with inside intellectual in formations! Clay bodeans ...
 

blackbelt1961

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something to think about :

Gen 7:2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male, and its mate,

John 10:34 : Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?

we hold the position as gods in some form.

so we see God Gives the order of Birth to same Kind, dogs, give birth to dogs, cats to cats, Human to humans, and so forth,

God/Jesus says we are gods, God gives Life to His Kind, in His Image? yet God is Perfect we are not

well not yet anyhow
 

Luce NDs

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Is "gods" possessive or dis-possessive case? Thus the toss out or fallacy case ... neigh MS drops out! Dispositional ... being portion of the character development ... some don't ... develop as they would embrace change and learning dimensions. These could provoke schemes and plots of eternal stretch (demonic conspiracies in one perspective)!

Now if one crosses the two of each kine ... will one get an awkward offspring ... or fore footed calves ... to lead of course as excessively esteemed.

There are great leaders that overestimate their teams ... not understanding the spirits that rage at night as incubus and succubus ... at times labelled ID and EGO as nominalism!

We thunder on without much intelligence ... being emotions are move in Vogue. Po eth ichs!
 

BetteTheRed

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So, you see sin as social/political - not just concerned with individual's sin?

Perhaps Pentecostals etc. prefer "individual" sins - because it's somewhat easier to manage allowing folks in that country club in the sky as individuals than entire political voters/members?
Not even mainly concerned with individual sin.

If person A rapes person B, there is a pattern of behaviour, going back many (7?) generations, that makes person A think that they have some sort of right of access to person B. The story varies from family to family, from thinking that B persons are possessions, or that B persons are weaker and thus have to accept domination by stronger persons, or just that B persons are vaguely "lesser" - less wanted, less desirable, less valued, etc.
 

Luce NDs

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This is the sephen th ... or the cephas generation ... a deep state in which we are derived ... knowing nothing! They sail off ...

Moni is a aberration of mona meaning a noble good ... as if its better being out ... and about like the environment!
 

chansen

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I like it when you're serious -even if it doesn't last long...... ;)
I think if I was serious for too long I might spontaneously combust. Plus there are too many humourless people in this world. Somebody has to compensate.


I'd like to, respectfully, present a different point of view.
The Bible is a book, an object that was written by humans - not God or Jesus.
It has been suggested that the words are inspired by God. I think that belief is erroneous. (That's not so say that there are those - including myself - who gain inspiration from how we interpret some (but not all) verses.)
I'm encouraged by your grasp on the obvious.


Time for an analogy - (I'm rather fond of analogies!).
The Bible is an object. The game of Snakes and Ladders is a board-game -also an object.
I happen to think it's how you use these two objects that matters most.

You are free to read the Bible and see others as sinners and unworthy of The Great Reward of Eternal Life - but you, righteous you, are promised a membership for eternity.
When these folks play Snakes and Ladders they think the snakes are for others, not them. It's ladders upward only. You better not move on the board when it's not your turn - because these folks, whilst ignoring their own snakes, are busy pointing out every time you make a wrong move.
I think it's rather ironic you chose a game with snakes in it for your analogy.

I think what the fundies see is a perfect roll, no matter what they actually roll. When you're that confident that God is on your side, you can do no wrong. Bad rolls are retaken, and good rolls are confirmation that God smiles on them. To everyone else, they are cheaters and what is wrong with the world. To them, they are brilliant.


Then there are other folks who take out the board on a rainy day to enjoy some time spent with family/friends. They have drinks and munchies, laugh a lot, and aren't too bothered if they don't win, because they are understand it's about enjoying each others company. It's not the game, it's the relating to each other with brotherly love that is the main attraction.
That's how I see the Bible -it's a game with it's ultimate focus on Jesus's two Commandments - to love God and love neighbour.
And what's wrong with that as a game to play for life? If everyone played it there's be no poverty, no wars, just justice, peace and love.
I'm confused on the number of Commandments. I think they shrunk on me.

And no, the players of the game don't get to claim the game they've been playing for 2000 years could, if played perfectly, solve the world's problems. You've had 2000 years to demonstrate the game's ability to do that, and you've utterly failed. Stop treating your game like it's a solution. It's a game.


Then there are the atheists who just see a board game. They don't want to play the game, they just want to muck up the game for the other players. They're very good at it, it must be said, but they leave the room in a mess. as picking up the pieces isn't their style.
I'm happy if people want to play a game. My avatar for the last few months is actually very appropriate here. I'll expand it for you:



I saw that tweet and it made me laugh because it captured how I feel here sometimes, so I used it for my avatar.

I have zero problem with people playing a game. It's when they demand I play their game or be subject to the penalties of playing the game poorly that I have my biggest problem with the game. Those are the games I delight in setting on fire, because it's fun to play with the hollow threats and beliefs.

But even people who play the game without cheating don't seem to like it when I laugh at the game. The game is funny to me, and I have fun with it. I'm not upsetting the table at those games - I'm the one actually treating it like a game. It seems I'm supposed to treat it like a solemn game, and I didn't know there was such an animal.

Look at the responses from the fundies here over the years. When they are cornered on anything, they still claim victory. As a last resort, they will take their ball and go home. Those are the people who are rage-quitting the game. Even though I'm just an observer, I never left the game. I rather enjoy it, and after all, I'm still here. I'm the one actually treating it like a game an laughing along with it.
 
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