Is the BIBLE is THE WORD of GOD? In 7 minutes - Dr. Ravi Zacharias at University of Illinois

BetteTheRed

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See, I don't think prophecy is meant to "predict the future", per the coincidences outlined by the good doctor's hermeneutics.

I don't think we're supposed to use "prophecy" as a "how we're more correct than other religions", as much as a tool to correct our own world. Where we are un-just or un-fair, or un-charitable - to any group, we should look to the prophetic voice for correction.

And just to correct the mis-statement of the title, Dr. Zacharias concludes not that the bible is the Word of God, but that, because the sheer volume of referential material over the ages, we should take Jesus seriously.

I kid you not. I just watched 7:12 to come to a completely different conclusion, about the same material, as unsafe.

None of any of this has anything to do with the material presented, as to whom it is presented to...
 
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History helps guide “prophesy” because it’s a pretty good indicator of what human behaviour will be in the future. Mythologized historical stories have timeless quality that make it possible for us to see those same behaviours happening, or potentially happening in different times and places.
 

Mendalla

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History guides “prophesy” because it’s a pretty good indicator of what human behaviour will be in the future. Mythologized historical stories have timeless quality that make it possible for us to see those same behaviours happening, or potentially happening in different times and places.
Which is still a different concept from prophecy as a revelation handed down from on high or a psychic vision. For one thing, it's probabilistic and based on human analysis rather than actual knowledge of the future. Someone can say that this will probably happen based on past experience, but not that it will. Prophets rely on pretending they actually know the future with some degree of accuracy, at least the ones who tend to attract followers and start cults and religions.
 

Mendalla

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And as far as the subject of the thread, it all comes down to what you mean by "Word of God". If you mean literally coming from God, no. But "word of" can also mean "word about" and that comes closer to what I think the Bible is about. It's a human record of human experience focussed on the presence of The Divine.
 
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Smoke some weed (don’t overdo it), maybe. You’ll get it. You’ll be more “prophetic”. Your subconscious will surface subtly...your mind will be “turned on” (in a cerebral sense) a little higher. That’s all it is, prophesy, is just being a little more tuned in and turned on and aware of some universal wisdom...that’s actually a thing. Just don’t stay awake for three days. You don’t want what happens with that.

Prophets don’t predict the future, they warn people to change course based on already existing wisdom they become aware of.


I think they all had altered consciousnesses back then for one reason or another. That was normal. So have all the greatest creative minds since. I think the prophetic state of mind depended on it. Being very sober logicians doesn’t really fit with their times - sober logicians can’t be prophets unless something changes in their brains, and then after they can balance their creative insight with their logic.
 
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GiancarloZ

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Jesus Christ is the Word of God. It's in Genesis, John, et caterva.
The Scripture is the written witnessing of the people of God about God's self revelation(s) culminating in the coming of Christ.
Scripture is infallible and authoritative in matters of faith, and that's it. Not historically, and not socially.
Not everything recorded in the Scripture is good. And everything is primarily allegorical and/or metaphorical, but some stuff are also historical. It does not need to be historical to be true.
 
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Jesus is the Word of God. I personally believe that the presence of God’s word is not limited to the bible but is reflected in life itself...past, present, and future...so it can be discerned in plenty of other writing, as people write about life. But if whatever is being learned by it is not leading to the same principles Jesus taught, then it is not what we’re supposed to be following. And so, I don’t believe that the fundamentalist view is what we were intended to learn from the bible.


John: 21-25 really made an impression on me the first time I read it. It might be my “favourite” verse, besides the verses in the Beatitudes, because it takes the Word of God and where it could be written, outside the confines of the bible. I’m afraid I’m not a very traditional church doctrine type, no matter which denomination. I don’t think we’re necessarily supposed to stop there, stick to one person’s doctrine, and stay inside the lines thereafter...creatively speaking. Not if it doesn’t move us to change anything. Whether that’s seen as heretical or not.
 
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Is there supposed to be an "only" in there? I think we are intended to learn from the Bible, but not just the Bible.
I meant, whatever we’re meant to learn from the texts of the bible...I don’t believe the fundamentalists are teaching it. Often, I think they are teaching what not to learn and there’s something sinister about it, actually. Especially the bible guns n’ god types...they are using the bible as a tool of abuse. I do think we can learn from all kinds of writing from all kinds of eras and genres and places and people and traditions. The fundamentalists don’t. I think they’ve been misled - many of them were vulnerable and coerced - and they seem to be locked into a mindset that isn’t helpful to say the least.




:)
 
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And i’m joking...or half joking...about weed. You don’t need it. I don’t need it...i’ve been a daydreamer as long as I can remember. But it does seem to spark imagination and creativity in a lot of people...maybe helps them get into that state of daydreamy fascination more readily, since we grow out of that more as adults. (Do you remember being fascinated by everything and being in the “zone” when you were a kid? Taking everything in like a sponge.) The Rastafarians sure seem to think it helps. ;) It’s sacred to them. I still do think that back in biblical times, like it has been with a lot of ancient peoples, it was probably pretty normal, and in many cases, respected, for people to experience altered states - whether from plants or fungus growing in the ground, or mental differences in their brains (psychosis), or sleep deprivation (I’m convinced that was a thing more than it is today because they had way more reason for sleepless nights) and they would’ve been seen as prophets.
 
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Waterfall

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And i’m joking...or half joking...about weed. You don’t need it. I don’t need it...i’ve been a daydreamer as long as I can remember. But it does seem to spark imagination and creativity in a lot of people...maybe helps them get into that state of daydreamy fascination more readily, since we grow out of that more as adults. (Do you remember being fascinated by everything and being in the “zone” when you were a kid? Taking everything in like a sponge.) The Rastafarians sure seem to think it helps. ;) It’s sacred to them. I still do think that back in biblical times, like it has been with a lot of ancient peoples, it was probably pretty normal, and in many cases, respected, for people to experience altered states - whether from plants or fungus growing in the ground, or mental differences in their brains (psychosis), or sleep deprivation (I’m convinced that was a thing more than it is today because they had way more reason for sleepless nights) and they would’ve been seen as prophets.
What is your evidence for biblical prophets in biblical times doing this? Dietary laws? The Delphi Oracle? Moses drunkenness? Or is this just what you think but unsubstantiated with facts?
 

Northwind

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For once I watched the video.

He made some interesting points. I was listening to what he said about Daniel. That would apply to today. Or to any empire over time that got too big for its britches. Arguably, it could be a commentary against that type of rule.

As for the prophesy about Jesus, people have had Messiah stories in all cultures over time. Christians choose to apply that to Jesus.

These are just thoughts off the top of head. Something I'll ponder.
 
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What is your evidence for biblical prophets in biblical times doing this? Dietary laws? The Delphi Oracle? Moses drunkenness? Or is this just what you think but unsubstantiated with facts?
Because they were human. I don’t have evidence I have experience of not sleeping for three days and it was the belly of the whale, you could say... And because so many ancient cultures used natural substances that produced prophetic insights. Mescaline, peyote, mushrooms, marijuana, ayhausca ... those things did not have a stigma and were often seen as sacred. Where’s proof that they didn’t use anything or were not in altered states? is probably a better question. We shouldn’t be holding them to current expectations of social morality in that regard.
 
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