Is Apology the new buzz word in the church?

crazyheart

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. Have we discussed this at all. I didn't realize this is till a dilemma in the church?

Why do some know and others don't seem too.

Is there an explanation?
 

Northwind

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I didn't realize this was an issue. What does the LBGT community want? What is Rev DiNovo's relationship like with the church.

Questions.
 

Pinga

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I should be clear.

I did not understand crazyheart post

I do understand di Nova's request
 

Pinga

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I didn't realize this was an issue. What does the LBGT community want? What is Rev DiNovo's relationship like with the church.

Questions.

Di Nova is back in ministry in a church

Why does it matter what lgbtq.desire in this case. It was a minister who was wronged.

Though, there is discussion in the urban forum about rolling it into a greater program
 

revsdd

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The first same sex marriages (2) in Ontario were performed by Rev. Brent Hawkes of Metropolitan Community Church (not Cheri) on January 14, 2001, ten months BEFORE this marriage, which DiNovo claims was the first same sex marriage performed in Ontario. The difference between them, as I understand it, is that Hawkes respected Ontario's laws and did not try to get the marriages registered.

Hawkes performed those two marriages by banns, which are legal in Ontario, and the banns were read beginning in December 2000. The use of banns (which didn't require the city to issue a license) meant that a court case (which became known as "Halpern vs Canada") followed. This was the case that resulted (in 2003) in a decision by the Supreme Court of Canada that it was a violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to forbid same sex couples from marrying. DiNovo performed the marriage she's speaking of in September of 2001. It was also done by banns rather than a city-issued license (banns is the ancient Christian tradition the article refers to - it's actually perfectly legal even today as far as I know although few people use banns anymore) but the difference is that while Hawkes awaited the outcome of the court case, Di Novo tried to get the marriage registered immediately.

By the way - Cheri (who I went to Emmanuel College with - I can remember working with her on a project on baptism for a Christian Education course) is being disingenuous. "Quite frankly, what good reason could I come up with to say no? What reason could any clergy come up with?" As I'm sure she well knows, clergy come up with what to them are all sorts of good reasons to "say no." The point is that not all clergy (even in the United Church) agree on the issue.

As for the apology (apologies) requested. I don't think it's Cheri's place to speak on behalf of the LGBTQ community. If the LGBTQ community wants an apology, let them seek it and she can support them. As for the apology to her from the United Church - why? Because the church was silent? Did they continue to request a license to marry for her? If they did - and I suspect that Toronto Conference did, although I wasn't in Toronto Conference and don't know for sure - then in a way they weren't silent - they defied the government on her behalf. And the government didn't have to ask the United Church to take away her license anyway. The government issues the license. If they knew that a particular minister was deliberately defying the laws around marriage they could presumably just have not issued the license to her even if the United Church requested it. Perhaps the government should apologize to the United Church for trying to get the United Church to do its dirty work for it?

Anyway, I think it should be the LGBTQ community deciding if they want an apology, and I see no need for an apology to Cheri.
 

revjohn

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CBC said:
The marriage caught the attention of Toronto media, who covered the story intensely. Shortly after the wedding, a representative from the registrar general's office sent a letter to the United Church requesting that DiNovo lose her licence.
I would be interested in reading that particular letter. As revsdd points out it is the Province of Ontario who grants the license to Marry to clergy serving Pastoral Charges within the geographic bounds of Ontario. They do not have to ask the United Church to remove DiNovo's license they can remove it themselves. They may have sent a letter informing the United Church that the Reverend DiNovo had her license revoked.

DiNovo said:
"That would have taken away my livelihood. This was serious. It was what I did for a living," DiNovo said.
No, being placed on the DSL would have taken away your livelihood. Not being able to preside over marriages hurts your comfort margins.

DiNovo said:
"It also affected all of the many hundreds of people in my congregation. It affected, of course, the women that I married and it affected the entire struggle for same-sex marriage at the time."
I'm thinking that is overselling the point. It affected the women certainly because you presided over what was, at that time, an illegal marriage and you attempted to register it. That is the price one pays in acts of civil disobedience, that you might lose the fight. The Reverend DiNovo lost that particular fight and so did those women.

CBC said:
DiNovo said ideally, both Liberal Premier Kathleen Wynne and Ontario PC Leader Doug Ford would acknowledge the government's role in the story. She included Ford, she said, because it was a Tory government that tried to have her licence revoked.
"Tried to have her license revoked" suggests that the license was never revoked. If it was never revoked what is she owed an apology for? If it was revoked by the Province because she illegally tried to register a prohibited marriage what is she owed an apology for? If the Province stripped her of her license to marry what is it that the United Church of Canada owes her an apology for. She was under the oversight of Toronto Conference, it is the Executive Secretary of the Conference who requests that the Province issue a license to marry to Clergy in their bounds.

In answer to the question posed in the title, no. Apology is not the new buzzword. Apology has been in the United Church lexicon since 1986 at least.

Crazyheart said:
Have we discussed this at all.
This particular case? No. It is a relatively recent development.

Crazyheart said:
I didn't realize this is till a dilemma in the church?
It is not still a dilemma in the church. With the advent of the legalization of same-sex marriages the only dilemma is finding Pastoral Relationships where the clergy are permitted to perform them.

Unless the Province of Ontario stripped the License to Marry from Reverend DiNovo and refuses to reinstate it now that she is back in Pastoral Ministry there is no dilemma for the Reverend either.

Crazyheart said:
Why do some know and others don't seem too.
More of an Ontario thing I'm guessing.
 

paradox3

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This is being discussed over on FB. Cheri has posted a few times.
 

Pinga

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hmm, is it cross-posting to invite facebook folks to come & dsicss here?
 

BetteTheRed

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I'm not sure anyone owes Cheri an apology. A thank you might be nice. The United Church of Canada certainly owes the LGBTQ community an apology for its historic position, IMHO, but that's another issue.
 

paradox3

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Can't help but wonder if this woman is getting a bit of an overdeveloped ego. Anyone notice she is featured in Observer advertisements for the classifieds? Apparently she found her new job in the Observer.
 

Luce NDs

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Is Christian Law lighter than heavy handed laws of mortal gods ?

If an ego is something of cognizance is there an over ego and under ego as sous and Sur? Superego being way out beyond mortals as paranormal! What would one call a boy named Sous ... entombed 'd? Dead linguistically ...
 

Carolla

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Seems rather odd to me that this is popping up now. Wondering if she is trying to call out Doug Ford in some way politically to comment on gay marriage? Time will tell I suppose.
 

Pinga

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There is also the time leading up to conference and the collapse of conferences
 

BetteTheRed

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I didn't kinda get the timing, either. I have it on the down low that Cheri DiNovo and Andrea Horvath are not the best of friends, though. Gossip.
 

paradox3

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The whole thing seems odd to me. Is Cheri gay herself? One of her FB posts seemed to suggest this.
 
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