Canada Votes, 2019

Mrs.Anteater

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“Some of these examples would be grape soda, corn and watermelon. Lots of cartoons with eating the corn with typewriter noises, spitting watermelon seeds, etc.”
Could you explain this?
 

Luce NDs

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Remember Dante's Masque ... as a creatively processing mind would be unseen and overlooked as basic blackness of soul!

Black is like jet ... gone before you see it! Consider the images of UFO's ... immediately dismissed by the physical faulques ... the shifty story flows as Marah and the oh Shawn moment ...
 

Mendalla

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“Some of these examples would be grape soda, corn and watermelon. Lots of cartoons with eating the corn with typewriter noises, spitting watermelon seeds, etc.”
Could you explain this?
This hits on the watermelon one:


Not sure about the corn one. That's actually new on me. Generally, the problem isn't with the food itself, but how it is portrayed in connection with Black culture. So you don't have to stop eating fried chicken and watermelon, just be conscious of how they are being associated with Black people and culture.
 

Mendalla

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And the Liberals diversionary tactic is ... gun control. They are proposing a ban on "assault style" weapons (actual assault rifles, being fully automatic, are already restricted to police and military use), defined as military style and capable of being converted to full auto. This will likely get some traction in cities, at least. I have no issue with it though I'm not sure how much it accomplishes. These aren't the best weapons for hunting and therefore have no real civilian purpose other than macho bragging rights or target shooting and they are favorites of the mass murder set. That said, I also agree with Scheer that dealing with illegal handguns is also a big part of the picture, perhaps bigger given how many of the shootings in Canada are gang-related using handguns. But, why can't we have both. This needn't be a binary, either-or proposition.
 
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I've known since sometime in childhood that the cartoonish stereotypes and references to types of food - because the intent was to mock - were racist. I don't know when exactly I learned it. In college, the first year when I did general studies, I was 18. I took a sociology course and the prof said that all white colonial settlers were racist - anyone who says they are not is not being honest with themselves because it is often subtle and subconscious. My instinct was to feel offended and say "but I'm not!" and then I started noticing my subconscious prejudices more, and reflecting on past biases and stereotypes.

What Trudeau did 18 yrs ago was stupid but forgivable. It's his record now on race - using his cabinet ministers as tokens, not tackling indigenous issues, siding with leaders like Bolsonaro in Brazil who are racist. Those things are presently concerning - effectively racist policies and/ or inaction are more concerning than antics from many years ago.

And then...There are extremes, like neonazis, skinheads, white supremacists - that I always knew were, unequivocally, as racist as it gets. That's why I wonder why more people are not more obviously upset by its presence in politics. That's far worse than Trudeau then and now.
 
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Mendalla

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I took a sociology course and the prof said that all white colonial settlers were racist
By and large, yes. Some were more enlightened than others, but in general white European society of that time was racist so those raised in it were. It's more how that racism was expressed. Some treated non-whites brutally, like animals, while others patronized them and believed them better off if they taught them European culture and language (hence the ban on speaking native languages in residential schools). Still racist but perhaps a bit less overtly (emphasis on "overtly") destructive.
 
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By and large, yes. Some were more enlightened than others, but in general white European society of that time was racist so those raised in it were. It's more how that racism was expressed. Some treated non-whites brutally, like animals, while others patronized them and believed them better off if they taught them European culture and language (hence the ban on speaking native languages in residential schools). Still racist but perhaps a bit less overtly (emphasis on "overtly") destructive.
He was talking about the 1990s - "us"- that most of us, who were white, were subconsciously if not overtly racist. He made a good point - made us think. Even IQ testing is racist, for example, biased toward cultural standards. You can't answer what you never learned and were never taught - but that's not a measure of intelligence. It does hinder participation in post secondary or other institutional requirements as gateways to inclusion and participation and better economic circumstances - effectively, racist policies and practices.
 
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Mendalla

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I took a sociology course and the prof said that all white colonial settlers were racist - anyone who says they are not is not being honest with themselves because it is often subtle and subconscious.
You said white colonial settlers and used past tense so I thought you were referring to the original settlers. Yes, there is still racism in us to be sure.
 

ChemGal

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You said white colonial settlers and used past tense so I thought you were referring to the original settlers. Yes, there is still racism in us to be sure.
And if you look at the original being white as defined now didn't have the privilege across for all of Europe either. I think that applied mostly to the British and French.
 

ChemGal

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I've known since sometime in childhood that the cartoonish stereotypes and references to types of food - because the intent was to mock - were racist. I don't know when exactly I learned it.
With the cartoons it just never occurred to me at the time that some of the characters were representing Black people. Asian and 'Indian' I picked up on in the cartoons at the time.
I wasn't big on watching them when I was older.
 

GeoFee

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Hi,

I have been observing the electoral process for a good number of years. It has always seemed somewhat absurd. Now it seems totally off the rails. This through media representation of the process as highly competitive; about who will win and who will lose. There is little presentation of coherent social opportunities depending on the cooperation of diverse perspectives and alliances. Democracy has become a divisive enterprise. Plato suggests that this is the very nature of democracy, leading, as we now notice, to the rise of tyranny. A divided population conquered by persons hungry for power at any cost.

To change the world we must change ourselves; becoming who we are rather than who we want to be, or who others expect us to be.

George
 
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And if you look at the original being white as defined now didn't have the privilege across for all of Europe either. I think that applied mostly to the British and French.
He was talking about white privelege "now" which was early 1990's at the time. I think it's true there has been subconscious racism and white privelege - even if not always overt, but still damaging, lasting through the 20th century until now, even with human rights laws. The laws don't cover subtle mindsets that can be hurtful. Only education and attitude change can do that. It can take a couple of generations or longer, especially if avoided. It doesn't go away without learning and changing the lens through which we view society.

This was all revisited when I took the social service worker courses over a decade later, and we got into deeper study of the civil rights, lgbt rights and disability rights movements and feminist theory. Again, most of us have some prejudices we may not be consciously aware of and may need to continuously confront within ourselves - even in white people thinking of ourselves as the "host" society, that can lead to xenophobia and prejudice. We got right into examining those and I learned a lot. Intersectionality was part of that.
 
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Luce NDs

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Chaos continues because of all the alternate stirrings ... some emotional some flat out fallacy of logic ... misunderstanding the original logos!

Tis a word log forgotten ... when a strange thing fell out of the heavens ... more mire? That's the dirt on misconceiving!

Some cannot conceive of such divinings due to the vast divide ... then while unconscious at night we drift off intuit! That Shadowy stage ... it may eclipse tomorrow! And God ... another day of working to undo unknown stuff ... in the rush to get it done ... it failed! Perhaps mined play!
 

Mendalla

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Naheed Nenshi's take on the brownface scandal. Not sure why it's in The Washington Post rather than one of our papers.

 

Luce NDs

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Strong powers hate anything of humility or Neigh MS! Like mined play some icons need to be reordered ... NU 's Eries?

Leaves some of us unstrung ...
 

Lastpointe

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Thanks for posting

I find it quite interesting that this issue appears to be becoming a minor issue

Why I wonder

To me, this shows Trudeau at his sanctimonious best. Willing to excuse his own bad behaviour on several different issues but willing to challenge anyone else

Imagine if this had happened to any other politician in the country. Pick anyone, I find it hard to believe that an apology would fix it

I assume it is because people like him. Tall, dark haired, good looking, nice smile, engaging. Talk about privilege.


Let’s look at his mistakes

Election change. The recommendation wasn’t the one he wanted so he cancelled it. I personally don’t have a problem with keeping what we have but people were excited by it

Eliminating two strong willed women from his cabinet and caucus. Why? Did he expect that as women they would be in thrall with his charisma and go along to get along

Failure to do much over indigenous issues after big promises

In my mind a disaster out MMIW investigation

The reporter who was groped ( remember the “we believe the women” idea, right up until it is me against them). That was when “we “ can all learn

SNC. Well we are looking out for Quebec jobs, even though there was no indication that jobs were at issue and th company had an agreement to stay in Quebec due to loan issues. So while he pushed the attorney general as he should not have, Gee i have the best interests of the country at heart

Let’s see. The Agha Khan. Hmmm. My good old friend and his private island. Oops

India. How embarrassing

China. A big trip to work on a trade deal where he was snubbed. Let alone the issues we have with China now.

And deficits and omnibus bills. Yikes

It all that means nothing to people who just think he is a nice guy


Not saying anyone else would be better or worse. It’s politics. And the government is a big massive ocean liner that doesn’t ch age course easily or with out a great deal of energy exerted

But honestly. How much slack do we have to cut this guy
 

Luce NDs

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Thanks for posting

I find it quite interesting that this issue appears to be becoming a minor issue

Why I wonder

To me, this shows Trudeau at his sanctimonious best. Willing to excuse his own bad behaviour on several different issues but willing to challenge anyone else

Imagine if this had happened to any other politician in the country. Pick anyone, I find it hard to believe that an apology would fix it

I assume it is because people like him. Tall, dark haired, good looking, nice smile, engaging. Talk about privilege.


Let’s look at his mistakes

Election change. The recommendation wasn’t the one he wanted so he cancelled it. I personally don’t have a problem with keeping what we have but people were excited by it

Eliminating two strong willed women from his cabinet and caucus. Why? Did he expect that as women they would be in thrall with his charisma and go along to get along

Failure to do much over indigenous issues after big promises

In my mind a disaster out MMIW investigation

The reporter who was groped ( remember the “we believe the women” idea, right up until it is me against them). That was when “we “ can all learn

SNC. Well we are looking out for Quebec jobs, even though there was no indication that jobs were at issue and th company had an agreement to stay in Quebec due to loan issues. So while he pushed the attorney general as he should not have, Gee i have the best interests of the country at heart

Let’s see. The Agha Khan. Hmmm. My good old friend and his private island. Oops

India. How embarrassing

China. A big trip to work on a trade deal where he was snubbed. Let alone the issues we have with China now.

And deficits and omnibus bills. Yikes

It all that means nothing to people who just think he is a nice guy


Not saying anyone else would be better or worse. It’s politics. And the government is a big massive ocean liner that doesn’t ch age course easily or with out a great deal of energy exerted

But honestly. How much slack do we have to cut this guy
Accept the world is a loose place ... had to be that way to allow heaven's fallacy some fluid improvement! As a termination to part of the story I like loose ... goes well!
 

Mrs.Anteater

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Naheed Nenshi's take on the brownface scandal. Not sure why it's in The Washington Post rather than one of our papers.

Right on.
One thing to mention- the head scarf during taking the citizen oath is likely not permitted because they honestly do watch everyone of the new Canadians to make sure they speak the oath, which they wouldn’t be able to with a head covering. However, they could, if they wanted, accommodate by having women who feel they need to wear a head scarf in public take their oath in a separate room with only women present, in which case they would not need to wear one. That’s the question- how much do you accommodate religion and where do you say- if you live here, that’s the price to pay.
 

Ritafee

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Next up...how about no more non disabled actors playing disabled characters in movies, ever, especially those heroicizing euthanasia like a fairly recent Hollywood movie did.
No more acting out of character then ... ever?
no more non serial killer actors playing serial killer characters in movies ever?
no more non racist actors playing racist characters?
no more non euthanized actors playing euthanized characters?
no more non neo nazi actors playing neo nazi characters?
 

Mendalla

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No more acting out of character then ... ever?
no more non serial killer actors playing serial killer characters in movies ever?
no more non racist actors playing racist characters?
no more non euthanized actors playing euthanized characters?
no more non neo nazi actors playing neo nazi characters?
I get what you are saying, but I think the situation is a bit different from what @Kimmio Laughterlove is talking about.

We have disabled actors working their butts off in minor roles or theatre while major disabled roles like the male lead in Me Before You (the movie Kimmio is talking about) go to "name" actors with no disability.

I mean, deaf person Marlee Matlin got an Oscar for Children of a Lesser God and that was probably one of the first times a disabled character in a major movie was played by an actor with that disability. And, in spite of her win, things have not improved much.

It's similar to the whitewashing problem. There are plenty of good Asian actors in Hollywood yet, when they went to adapt the Japanese anime Ghost in the Shell, the lead went to Scarlett Johansson, who is a terrific actor, but pretty hard to pass off as Asian. And then they added insult to injury by talking about making her look more Asian.

And Scarlett raised hackles again by accepting a role as a transgender character in Rub and Tug. Again, there are plenty of trans actors trying to make a living, some of whom are becoming fairly well-known. Why not let one of them have the job? To her credit, Scarlett stepped down in this case.

And I would love to see trans actors playing cis characters or a disabled actor getting a part that wasn't written to be disabled. But right now, Hollywood won't even cast them in the roles they should be naturals for, so let's get over that hump first.
 
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