Canada Votes, 2019

revsdd

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Would be more sincere of an apology if he could actually recall the number of times. He was asked - he said it was once in high school.
And this is where we start to get into real trouble - when stories get spun out of control and things get said (deliberately or not) that aren't true. I find it rather hard to believe that Trudeau said it only happened once in high school - since everyone acknowledged that the first picture released to which he was responding - was of a 29 year old Trudeau who was teaching at a private school. Unless we're going to spin teaching at a private school as "in high school" in such a way as to suggest that Trudeau suggested he was a kid at the time - which he didn't.

It's like people saying that Trump called all Mexicans rapists. He didn't. He was specifically referring to illegal Mexican immigrants and he said that some were rapists, and included the words that some were good people. But pretty much everyone (especially Trump's opponents) believe he called all Mexicans rapists.

I'm not defending the indefensible for either Trudeau or Trump. I'm lamenting the hypocrisy that's rampant in our politics.
 

ChemGal

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And this is where we start to get into real trouble - when stories get spun out of control and things get said (deliberately or not) that aren't true. I find it rather hard to believe that Trudeau said it only happened once in high school - since everyone acknowledged that the first picture released to which he was responding - was of a 29 year old Trudeau who was teaching at a private school. Unless we're going to spin teaching at a private school as "in high school" in such a way as to suggest that Trudeau suggested he was a kid at the time - which he didn't.

It's like people saying that Trump called all Mexicans rapists. He didn't. He was specifically referring to illegal Mexican immigrants and he said that some were rapists, and included the words that some were good people. But pretty much everyone (especially Trump's opponents) believe he called all Mexicans rapists.

I'm not defending the indefensible for either Trudeau or Trump. I'm lamenting the hypocrisy that's rampant in our politics.
It was during the questions yesterday. When the 2001 incidence happened, he was asked if he had done similar things before. He said yes, once in high school, that was it. So the 2 were being acknowledge at that point. Not the 3rd with the video. Sorry if I wasn't clear on both the high school & 2001 incidents being included with that.

It seems like Global News asked the question as at the time they had the video, but hadn't yet confirmed it was Trudeau. They were giving him a chance to explain the video incidence as well, if it was him, which was confirmed this morning.
 

ChemGal

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To be more clear - here is the video:

At ~42s mark:
Was that the only time in your life you've done something like that? (after the Arabian night theme was already being discussed)
When I was in high school I dressed up at a talent show and sang Day-O. With makeup on.

No mention of the incidence from the video released this morning.
 

Lastpointe

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Yes. The cover up is always the issue. Admit it. Don’t hide it

Noticed that Butts has left Ottawa to travel with Trudeau now. Guess they need his high level interactions to figure out the next steps

Honestly, who expects this to be the last. He likes this costume. And covers his entire body which is also odd. Face, arms, legs, hands.....
 

Lastpointe

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And ca; we agree it’s not make up. Make up is when you dress your kid as a princess or as a zombie

Black face is what we are talking about
 

ChemGal

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He didn't remember the instance where it was a video. Convenient, when it's the one that appears to be the most inappropriate.
Avoiding questions about how many times he has worn blackface.
If I went to the effort of covering myself in something like facepaint (vs typical makeup) I think I would remember that as long as I was a teen or older.
 
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Let's see...May had neonazi Monika Schaeffer, representing her party, Bernier's party's full of them, Scheer has appeared at events with neonazis, Trudeau wore blackface more than once even. That leaves Singh. Vote NDP.

Though, I have to say, though still racist, dressing up as a famous or fictitious character and putting makeup on to match is not the same as dressing up as an unspecified black person or brown person. That's "blackface and brown face "...because that's about mocking people of colour for their ethnicities. Today, white people shouldn't be dressing up with brown makeup regardless because people of colour find it hurtful and there's no need to do that. Just pointing out there's a difference being in character as a recognizable character - which Trudeau likes doing - and making fun of an ethnicity -which I'm not sure he was doing. I think Scheers and Berniers actions are worse - polically substantive, timely and deliberate. May was naive to not recognize potential for eco fascism and screen better. Her mistake was she was too trusting.

Speaking of real bigotry...Next up...how about no more non disabled actors playing disabled characters in movies, ever, especially those heroicizing euthanasia like a fairly recent Hollywood movie did.
 
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ChemGal

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Let's see...May had neonazi Monika Schaeffer, representing her party, Bernier's party's full of them, Scheer has appeared at events with neonazis, Trudeau wore blackface more than once even. That leaves Singh. Vote NDP.

Though, I have to say, though still racist, dressing up as a famous or fictitious character and putting makeup on to match is not the same as dressing up as an unspecified black person or brown person. That's "blackface and brown face "...because that's about mocking people of colour for their ethnicities. Today, white people shouldn't be dressing up with brown makeup regardless because people of colour find it hurtful and there's no need to do that. Just pointing out there's a difference being in character as a recognizable character - which Trudeau likes doing - and making fun of an ethnicity -which I'm not sure he was doing. I think Scheers and Berniers actions are worse - polically substantive, timely and deliberate. May was naive to not recognize potential for eco fascism and screen better. Her mistake was she was too trusting.

Speaking of real bigotry...Next up...how about no more non disabled actors playing disabled characters in movies, ever, especially those heroicizing euthanasia like a fairly recent Hollywood movie did.
You didn't think the video seemed to be similar to the blackface used for entertainment in the past? Trudeau isn't seen acting, but when others are at the same event, it appears the purpose of those there in blackface were to make fun of black people.
 
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You didn't think the video seemed to be similar to the blackface used for entertainment in the past? Trudeau isn't seen acting, but when others are at the same event, it appears the purpose of those there in blackface were to make fun of black people.
I didn't see the video yet.

(When I was in grade 8 I did a lip synch of a Prince song. The costume room at school (it was grade 8-12 with a musical theatre program) had a perfect purple velvet tailcoat and ruffled blouse. I loved Prince. I was a white girl who walked with a limp but I wanted to look as much like him on stage as I could. If there was a dark curly wig I could've styled like his, and if wash off bronzer were around in those days to make me a bit more naturally dark complected looking - I would have considered it. And I would be wanting to copy him as best I could because I liked him - in no way because I was making fun of his ethnicity.)
 

Mendalla

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(When I was in grade 8 I did a lip synch of a Prince song. The costume room at school (it was grade 8-12 with a musical theatre program) had a perfect purple velvet tailcoat and ruffled blouse. I loved Prince. I was a white girl who walked with a limp but I wanted to look as much like him on stage as I could. If there was a dark curly wig I could've styled like his, and if wash off bronzer were around in those days to make me a bit more naturally dark complected looking - I would have considered it. And I would be wanting to copy him as best I could because I liked him - in no way because I was making fun of his ethnicity.)
Which is why I think this is a lesser offense than, say, Malek's anti-gay and anti-trans screeds, which were clearly intentional acts. There's some wiggle room here in which it might not be intentionally "racist" or demeaning. If it was unintentional, if it was just him "playing the part", then acknowledging the harm and making a sincere apology should be enough. Now, if he said or did stereotypical things while "in the part", which is getting into mocking the other, then we're into a different ballgame.
 

Mendalla

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Also there's the current political moment to consider. Having active neonazis influencing a party right now deliberately for political purposes here and now is different from dress up mistakes, even hurtful ones Trudeau certainly needs to apologize for, that happened in a non politically related past situation long before he was in politics.
 

Lastpointe

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Wow. I don’t see this as a minor thing at all. Liste; to the head of the Arab Canadian association. He is angry. And he comment was that this is not something you can apologize for. Maybe you ca;apologize for a stupid thing you did as a 15 year old

Ut this was post 911. This was when black and brown people were suddenly looked at as terrorists. This was a 29 year old man, a teacher

And now there are three photos and a video.

It has become top trending news item world wide. Papers world wide are wondering if he should resign

A reporter asked him today if he should step down and let a senior minister take over

This is a big deal
 

Ritafee

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The saddest thing of all is that 'skin color' 'red and yellow black and white' is used as a 'prop for political gain' by all sides.
 

Mendalla

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Wow. I don’t see this as a minor thing at all. Liste; to the head of the Arab Canadian association. He is angry. And he comment was that this is not something you can apologize for. Maybe you ca;apologize for a stupid thing you did as a 15 year old

Ut this was post 911. This was when black and brown people were suddenly looked at as terrorists. This was a 29 year old man, a teacher

And now there are three photos and a video.

It has become top trending news item world wide. Papers world wide are wondering if he should resign

A reporter asked him today if he should step down and let a senior minister take over

This is a big deal
For people who might vote Liberal. For those of us who don't, it's kind of moot since it just gives us one more justification for a decision we have already made.

And you still have never addressed how it is worse than spreading false news that promotes hatred as Malek did. If this is reason to not vote Liberal, surely she is even more reason not to vote Conservative.

Not to mention the Conservatives are using allegations of racism to get votes rather than actually having an interest in dealing with it and I doubt that, in the end, they really give any more of a s**t than Trudeau does about this. That alone is a form of racism (oh, it's just something I can use to get votes).

Basically, I'm calling a pox on both their houses and suggesting if you're really concerned about racism and rights in this election, you're down to the NDP and Greens (since the PPC has gone full-on alt-right).
 

Northwind

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And you still have never addressed how it is worse than spreading false news that promotes hatred as Malek did. If this is reason to not vote Liberal, surely she is even more reason not to vote Conservative.
People of colour see this promoting hatred. Trudeau has frankly not been good at apologies lately. I haven't seen this one. Maybe he did better in apologizing for this past behaviour. I agree, it's not the worst offence and I'm not convinced he needs to resign for it. He does need to make amends and work towards "right relations" with people who feel hurt by this.


Basically, I'm calling a pox on both their houses and suggesting if you're really concerned about racism and rights in this election, you're down to the NDP and Greens (since
I totally agree. I don't see any reason to suggest that Scheer and his crew are virtuous.

I guess time will tell how this plays out.
 

Luce NDs

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People of colour see this promoting hatred. Trudeau has frankly not been good at apologies lately. I haven't seen this one. Maybe he did better in apologizing for this past behaviour. I agree, it's not the worst offence and I'm not convinced he needs to resign for it. He does need to make amends and work towards "right relations" with people who feel hurt by this.




I totally agree. I don't see any reason to suggest that Scheer and his crew are virtuous.

I guess time will tell how this plays out.
Probably the outcome will not be all that good ... given all the energy and power put into finding the guilty poles!

From out there on the fringe ... you can almost see them in here in the hairy smudge ...
 

Lastpointe

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And I think Singh did a very good job responding

Do I think this is worse than a candidate spouting off? In a way I do. He is the PM. As Chantelle Hebert said in her column. If this had come out during the liberal leadership race he wouldn’t likely have been the leader

If it had come out during the last election, he likely wouldn’t have won

He isn’t some random candidate. Imagine his next meeting with a world leader of colour. Imagine sitting down with the PM of India.......

Random candidates may say or do stupid things. They may not get elected because of it. But this man is the prime minister of the country
 
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