Canada Votes, 2019

Mendalla

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We're discussing an American election that won't happen until November 2020 and yet ours is only a couple months away. While the writ hasn't dropped yet, the party leaders are already talking about promises, policies and platforms while the chattering classes are talking about polls and strategies.

The major players are:

Liberals - Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is shooting for a second term in office, but his party is still lagging in the polls and struggling on several fronts

Conservatives - Andrew Scheer has been revealing his party's platform over the summer and trying to keep up the lead the CPC picked up over the course of various Liberal missteps and scandals.

NDP - Jagmeet Singh has been benefiting somewhat from the Liberals woes, though the NDP still doesn't seem poised to return to the glory days of Jack Layton

Greens - Elizabeth May actually has a caucus now, but it's just her and one other. Like the NDP, the Greens have picked up some of the Liberals lost votes but is it enough to expand that tiny caucus

Peoples' Party - Maxime Bernier seems determined to put his Libertarianism on the back burner and replace it with alt-right trash. Had he kept things more mainstream, he might have been a threat to the CPC but I don't think the Soldiers of Odin have that many members.

Bloc Quebecois - I forget who's even leading them right now, but buzz is that they might be able to leverage Liberal and NDP slippage in Quebec to get some seats back. Might.

The one light in the darkness is the closeness of the Liberal and Conservative polling numbers. A minority government with the NDP and/or Greens holding the balance of power seems a distinct possibility.

So, no specific questions or issues, this is just an open thread to discuss the CANADIAN elections. Yes, Trump and his antics might influence things and that possible influence is certainly open for discussion, but keep the focus on us and our politics, please.
 
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I’m not too excited about our politics this time, and depending on the next 4 years and three months down south, I don’t think we have anyone inspiring...yet. I think it’ll probably, but not certainly, be that Trudeau wins again...just to keep the far right at bay - we only have a good shot at voting for some damage control, but not for much that’s inspirational. But maybe in 2023 we will.
 

Graeme Decarie

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The Liberals and the conservatives are both garbage. The Greens and the NDP are much, much too mild.
The fact that CAnadians, most of them, actually think of voting Liberal or Conservative is crushing.

Canada is now - like the British - a patsy to serve American interests.
 

revsdd

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Agree with you about Bernier. He's a light-weight, but at one time I still thought that his libertarianism (an ideology with which I don't agree but that I still think is a legitimate option) had a place in the national debate, and his original pet project was opposing supply management for dairy farmers - and agree or disagree I think that's a valid debate to have. But when it failed to gain traction - you're right. He got into the far right for support and just based on what I see of him on Twitter much of what he says now is an appeal to fear and hatred. Against immigrants, against Muslims, we're losing our culture, anti-LGBTQ, etc., etc., etc. He's appealing to the worst of Canadian society. Fortunately he's only at about 1% in the polls.

Once again, our choices aren't inspiring. Trudeau has a record now, and lots of failures and broken promises. Such things are probably inevitable for anyone who gains power, but he can't appeal to "sunny ways" again. Scheer doesn't inspire much confidence and so much of his "team" has been plucked from the former ranks of Sun News that it gives an indication of where he might go if he wins. Jagmeet Singh? I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why the federal NDP thought that a backbench MPP in Ontario who wasn't even that well known in Ontario would make a good or credible federal leader. I think the NDP is going to lose a lot of their Quebec seats and some good Quebec MPs. I've become very impressed with Ruth Ellen Brosseau, for example, who was once mocked as the "Vegas candidate" when she won in 2011 under Layton. She was one of those placeholder candidates on the ballot just so that a few NDP diehards would have a name to vote for and she ended up winning. And after being mocked for a while she worked hard and became a really solid MP. I actually think she could have been a credible leadership candidate when Mulcair stepped down. Now she's probably going to lose her seat, and Canada will lose a very good MP. The Greens? I've never been a huge fan of Elizabeth May to be honest but at the moment, they might be my "none of the above" choice, although my riding is solidly Conservative.
 

Seeler

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During the HARPER years, I voted ABC. Since then I haven't seen anything about the Conservative party that would make me change my mind. Certainly not their attack ads, which show me that they are not willing to respect or cooperate with elected members of other parties.

I believe it cooperation. Leading up to the election, I would like to see each person running present their ideas of how to best serve Canada. After the election, I would like to see each member work for the good of the country. Rather than trying to tear down everything the other party proposes, I see the role of the opposition as one who looks at all sides on the issue and tries to amend or strengthen it, rather than oppose it on principal. And I see the role of the government is listening to their opposition and taking suggestions seriously.

So, in listening to the debates, both nationally and between the local candidates, I will be looking for signs of openness and cooperation. And I will look for vision rather than division.
 

Mendalla

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although my riding is solidly Conservative.
I am curious to see where my riding goes. It's been a Liberal stronghold during my time here, with one break during Harper's majority term, when the CPC held it. However, it went NDP in the provincial election (Deb Matthews held it for most of the McGuinty-Wynne era but left politics before the election) so I wonder if the support that party has long enjoyed in the riding East of mine has started to spill over.
 

Luce NDs

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So much BS being expressed in politics it is hard to believe these folk are seriously expecting some brainwashed folk to be drawn into it!

We are doomed ... the bible even says mankind must die in order to learn something after their great rush towards nothing ... an old expression about passions! When all thought is lost ...

Possibly a conspiracy drawn up and druid out of heaven ... a blank slate place! Severe squawking required by the naivete group ... to declare their unwelcome ignorance as applied by the higher ups!
 

Northwind

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This will be interesting for me on some level. I've moved from a solidly conservative area that likely has Bernier supporters to a very liberal area. That's small L liberal, not the party. This riding elected a Green candidate in the bi-election and he could win again. Given the nature of our lives here, we are physically in one riding while our offical address is in a nearby riding. Green stands a chance there too I believe. I'd like to see some credible voices coming from places like the Greens and NDP. I'd even like to see a credible voice or two coming from the libertarian stream. I'd like to see that result in some cooperation and collaboration. I do realize I'm unlikely to see that.

I honestly don't know what's best. Perhaps the devil we know? We are pretty boring in comparison to our neighbours. That's very good in many ways. It's also terrible. I guess time will tell.
 
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In my opinion there’s no such thing as a credible libertarian candidate, as it’s not a credible philosophy. It’s a social darwinian philosophy of everyone for themselves - which has strong roots that led to the freedom for corporations to be “persons” to stomp on the little people...and the severe inequality in the world. These days we can see that anything “classical liberal” or liberatarian only feeds power to the right, which then feeds the far right.


I heard Jagmeet Singh talk about Trudeau’s behaviour supporting a wealthy corporation - echoes of Bernie Sanders but without the energy and strength behind his words. He needs a speech and debate coach if he’s going to make an impact, I think. He seems like a decent, competent, person with his head and heart in the right place but he’s too introverted...he’s not a Jack Layton.

Otherwise, we have no good choices this time. I will support the best left leaning candidate in my riding, probably, depending on how close the race is. Otherwise I might have to vote liberal. There’s no way in hell I am voting for anyone to the right of Trudeau because they are too closely aligned and/ or courting support from white supremacists.
 

Northwind

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I do believe there is some room for some libertarian thinking. We do have some nanny state dynamics in some ways. So, the healthier libertarian thinking relates to recognizing we are adults who can make responsible choices. I do not believe there is a place for the extreme and of libertarianism, or of any paradigm for the record.
 
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I believe Bernie Sanders Democratic Socialism up here is the only thing that will actually help next generations...but we'll have to wait a few more years if/ when that happens. Voting in the centre only stalls the inevitable problems of inequality and environment - sets it where it is. It does not help. Ask anyone at the margins without other support who has had to struggle with the oppressive nature of the confluence of private businesses running public services. Even people who work in those areas that have been "corporatized". Where there's a profit motive it will trend as high as the market will bear, with low wages, a lot of temporary part time and shift work, no labour protections...not toward what is helpful or just.

What is being considered radical left today is just 'left'. It only seems radical because of the drastic shift rightward. Centre right are pretty terrible policies - unless people are wealthy enough to insulate themselves from the real world - and the far right are just unthinkably awful.
 
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Northwind

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This is a great article. Political affiliation and certain policies are not as important in success as we might think.

Social Mobility
 
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When you've been living at the bottom the American Dream is bulls**t that's why. And I totally understand people not too interested in becoming "status quo". That's why I miss Vancouver with more diverse understandings of what living well is. My west end downtown community was a mix of demographics of every sort and it was awesome. This place is pretty homogenous, pretty middle class and has huge blinders on - despite the pretty surroundings. The longer I'm here the more I realize how uptight and unwelcoming, it is even if it's wealthier (and have heard numerous complaints and warnings not to move here by others who recognize there's something not quite right here. I don't want to commit to the status quo of this place. I could commit to the status quo of somewhere more diverse and eclectic but the real thing is hard to find. People who haven't had a status quo comfortable lifestyle don't necessarily want that. They don't want middle class excess they just don't want abject poverty. They love their community because people help each other (people actually choose to live in Strathcona in downtown east Van...a poor postal code, because of the community and despite the problems with crime and drugs - they are committed to working on them. There is also a huge noticeable gap between quite comfortably middle class and abjectly poor here where I am now. They don't mingle. I found in Vancouver, in my neighbourhood, they did.
 
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Did you actually read the article @Kimmio Laughterlove?
Yeah, I hate the term “upward mobility” - it has to go because it’s a neoliberal term that came about in the 80s and it suggests it’s a norm we should still aspire to rather than equality and diversity - and I’m tired of the “upwardly mobile” experts studying “the poor” and taking an intellectual and career interest but not much else. I’d like to see the “stratospherically wealthy” become more “downwardly mobile” instead. Let’s talk about downward mobility for the ultra wealthy who’ve had more situational luck - and favouritism - than they’ve done hard work. Let’s study that more intently. Instead of the “deserving poor”, let’s switch focus to the undeserving wealthy. It’s the “Christian” thing to do. It’s also the humanistic thing to do. Being a billionaire just shouldn’t be a thing - so if what is down should move up - what is way up needs to move down. Then we might have something resembling economic justice instead of working with a rather small share of the pie to help people who are struggling.
 
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Northwind

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This article was more about overall success than actual upward mobility. Would you rather people stay in considerable poverty because they don't have access to proper supports and education, etc?

"Upward mobility" is far more than the neoliberal version. As we know, not everyone is going to achieve "The American Dream" whatever that is. I'm using that term to include Canada for simplicity. This research is broader based. It's not just referring to "deserving poor" and all that. It's looking at what factors help people succeed and what doesn't. It challenges the idea that some things like grants to help with rent and cost of living, etc.

I agree with you. I have zero desire to worship the capitalist view of "success". I do want to figure out how to help people be the best they can be. If that means they climb the corporate ladder, they should be able to do it from inner city slums of places like Chicago. We know the odds of that happening are less likely than for people who grow up in affluent suburbs.
 
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Fair enough.

A psychology study out of UofCalifornia about moral views and voting (and pretty much highlights why I couldn’t trust a conservative or a libertarian to govern fairly). I’m firmly on the left today. There is no other sustainable option that has a chance of preserving the human race and leading to anything resembling compassionate justice. Things really are that bad today, they are dire, and both conservatism and libertarianism are callous and not viable.

 
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