Let's talk about sin

The concept of sin might be central to Christianity, but I have some trouble understanding what it is exactly?......

Can you specify individual behaviours that are classified sin? If so, has some behaviours, or acts, that were once deemed sinful, are no longer so?

Do you think that original sin makes sense? Are we born sinful, because of Adam and Eve's behaviour?

As well as individual acts of sin, is there social or group, or political sins?

Are you happy with loaded words such as sin and evil - or would you use the term "missing the mark", or "estranged from God"?

Isn't sin just something that goes against God?

Of course, then you have to figure out, what goes against God? This simple, fundamental question is very difficult to answer, because the textbook sucks.

I think it's much more fun to find those silly things that are against God, and try to break as many of them as you can. Make it like a scavenger hunt.

PilgrimsProgress said:

Let's talk about sin
The concept of sin might be central to Christianity, but I have some trouble understanding what it is exactly?......

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According to scripture and the dictionary. Sin is against God 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

There are 613 commandments((Laws)including the ten major ones), so if you break any one of those you have sinned.

All sins fit under the commandments. These number in the thousands. if you breathe wrong you have committed a sin (sarcasm). There is no one who is christian that isn't sinning everyday hence why they have their get out clause. Atonement. There is one that can never be forgiven though. Blaspheming.

Here are just a few. Idolatry, greed, covetousness, love of money, gluttony, complaining, not loving God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, tempting God, high-mindedness, disobedience, witchcraft, lover of self, putting family, friends, job, or anything else above God including food, money, sports, inter, TV, Internet pornography, movies, cars, attachment to riches or material goods, Cursing, swearing, breaking oath taken in God’s name, irreverent use of God’s name in humor, speaking evil of the church, taking communion or the Lord’s Supper in a careless manner or unworthily, anger at God, careless use of God’s name, euphemisms like “geez, gosh, oh my God, Sloth, laziness, neglecting to assemble with the saints, profaning worship service, fighting or speaking evil of Christian brothers or sisters, Cursing father or mother, dishonoring parents, striking or fighting with parents, disobeying parents, making fun of parents, filthy talk, speaking evil or badly of parents, and grandparents included in the aforementioned things, Murder, anger, hate, enmity, rage, brawling, rioting, striker, unforgiving heart, wrath, unmerciful, dissensions, contentions, clamor, despitefulness, debate, arguing, fighting, abortion, divisions, strife, rivalries, Adultery, fornication, sexual immorality, filthy talk, crude joking, whoremongers, defiling the body, homosexuality, sensuality, impurity, tempting others sexually, inordinate passion, corrupt language, effeminate, pornography, vulgar or crude jokes, Stealing, bribery, extortion, sloth or laziness at work, defrauding, dishonesty, cheating, gambling, Lying, gossiping, slandering, backbiting, spreading rumors, deceit, extortion, railing, slander, defrauding, breaking promises, craftiness, hypocrisy, dishonesty, whisperers, idle words, withhold all of the truth, double-tongued, bragging, boasting, flattery, exaggerating the truth, whining, speaking evil of others, Coveting, envy, lust, jealousy, drunkenness, sorcery, materialism, wantonness, sensuality, gambling, revelings, attachment to riches or material goods, lawsuits against Christians, emulations, extortion, desire for money, desire for power, desire for sex (relating to sexual immorality), anger at other’s good fortunes, desiring things of others, flirting or playing with temptation.
Thank you to sciforum for this.

I and Chansen can break laws. But only human laws.
We can never sin. Or be sinners. Not in the literal sense
.

Without a soul ... one can follow the heart purely ... and ignorantly pose on the spot as mindless ... as someone suffering Peter Prin.

This is a state when one is raised to nothing but the appearance as a dove ... when by divers means one prunges from the position due to the fallacy theory! It can be divisive and leave a half filled grail ... the rest is equipment failure!

I have been ignored by this system and thus out of it ... proving the out of body concept! Hard to think of ... mind you ...

PilgrimsProgress said:

The concept of sin might be central to Christianity, but I have some trouble understanding what it is exactly?......

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To sin is to fall short. To miss the target. It is more than a behaviour it is also an attitude. Jesus' sermon on the mount indicts more than it lets off.

One of the problems connected to sin is not so much the issue that we are all guilty of it in some way but rather than God is very smitey and very scorekeepery. Such views lead towards attempts at a purity response. Where leaders in our communities take on responsibility for identifying sinful others and directing them on how to best change.

It is a failed strategy. It is still easier than each of us minding our own selves and pursuing our own transformation/reformation.

PilgrimsProgress said:

Can you specify individual behaviours that are classified sin? If so, has some behaviours, or acts, that were once deemed sinful, are no longer so?

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Sure we can. It rather misses the point though. Righteousness is not a simple matter behavioural modification (though it does help). All sin begins in the heart, at our deepest place of being. Sin, as missing the point, is a short-cut we take to get what we desire. It neglects other and elevates self.

PilgrimsProgress said:

Do you think that original sin makes sense? Are we born sinful, because of Adam and Eve's behaviour?

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From a storytelling standpoint I think it makes great sense. Unfortunately, people mistake this plot device as the theme of the story, which it isn't. The language of "sinful" misses the point and detracts from the actual theme of scripture which, I believe, is God's redeeming purpose. The plot device of original sin sets up humanity as constantly falling short of the aims of God. It doesn't render us evil (though we are certainly capable of it) it means that none of us are righteous no matter how hard we might try to be we will fall short of perfection. It doesn't mean that we might not hit the mark on rare occasions. It means that our marksmanship is such that we will never hit the target with anything approaching perfect consistency.

PilgrimsProgress said:

As well as individual acts of sin, is there social or group, or political sins?

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In as much as individuals who are subject to sin form communities they will also be subject to sin. The idea is that in a community where we engage with one another there is the opportunity to discern better. That opportunity isn't always realized. Sometimes we all agree upon short-cuts which will be costly for others before we pay the price ourselves.

PilgrimsProgress said:

Are you happy with loaded words such as sin and evil - or would you use the term "missing the mark", or "estranged from God"?

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The words work for me. I think that there are others that use them indiscriminately or cavalierly. I might toss them off quickly without a ready defense of their use. I'm not certain that the concepts are dependant upon the words used. I am aware that there is baggage attached to certain language and that baggage can get in the way of conversation. At that point, I think the issue is less theological and more communicational.

Some say sin is learning ... as you gain knowledge of the mistakes in the tests of surly life!

Define surly for a start to slipping the bonds of a life of aggression and conflict .... industrial civil ordres?

Thus some skip out ... says so in High Flight! Could be for Alfred Hitchcock's flighty types ... some actually do descend a notch or two ... grovers?

Pavlos Maros said:

Here are just a few. Idolatry1, greed2, covetousness3, love of money4, gluttony5, complaining6, not loving God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength7, tempting God8, high-mindedness9, disobedience10, witchcraft11, lover of self12, putting family, friends, job, or anything else above God13 including food14, money15, sports16, inter17, TV18, Internet pornography19, movies20, cars21, attachment to riches or material goods22, Cursing23, swearing24, breaking oath taken in God’s name25, irreverent use of God’s name in humor26, speaking evil of the church27, taking communion or the Lord’s Supper in a careless manner or unworthily28, anger at God29, careless use of God’s name30, euphemisms like “geez, gosh, oh my God31, Sloth32, laziness33, neglecting to assemble with the saints34, profaning worship service35, fighting or speaking evil of Christian brothers or sisters36, Cursing father or mother37, dishonoring parents38, striking or fighting with parents39, disobeying parents40, making fun of parents41, filthy talk42, speaking evil or badly of parents43, and grandparents44 included in the aforementioned things, Murder45, anger46, hate47, enmity48, rage49, brawling50, rioting51, striker52, unforgiving heart53, wrath54, unmerciful55, dissensions56, contentions57, clamor58, despitefulness59, debate60, arguing61, fighting62, abortion63, divisions64, strife65, rivalries66, Adultery67, fornication68, sexual immorality69, filthy talk70, crude joking71, whoremongers72, defiling the body73, homosexuality74, sensuality75, impurity76, tempting others sexually77, inordinate passion78, corrupt language79, effeminate80, pornography81, vulgar or crude jokes82, Stealing83, bribery84, extortion85, sloth or laziness at work86, defrauding87, dishonesty88, cheating89, gambling90, Lying91, gossiping92, slandering93, backbiting94, spreading rumors95, deceit96, extortion97, railing98 slander99, defrauding100, breaking promises101, craftiness102, hypocrisy103, dishonesty104, whisperers105, idle words106, withhold all of the truth107, double-tongued108, bragging109, boasting110, flattery111, exaggerating the truth112, whining113, speaking evil of others114, Coveting115, envy116, lust117, jealousy118, drunkenness119, sorcery120, materialism121, wantonness122, sensuality123, gambling124, revelings125, attachment to riches or material goods126, lawsuits against Christians127, emulations128, extortion129, desire for money130, desire for power131, desire for sex (relating to sexual immorality)132, anger at other’s good fortunes133, desiring things of others134, flirting or playing with temptation135.
Thank you to sciforum for this.

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Here's a game: Go through that list and determine how many you think are actually "bad". Also, tally up your score.

I broke into triple digits.

Pavlos Maros said:

I and Chansen can break laws. But only human laws.
We can never sin. Or be sinners. Not in the literal sense

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Don't harsh my buzz.

Can spatial domains be warped? Perhaps a metaphor ... as space is a thing indicating absence ... emptied? Thus abstract in nature ...

How To Validate Canada SIN

Let's use this fictitious SIN to demonstrate:
Always multiply the SIN Number by this number:
(Multiply the top number by the bottom number)
If you get a 2 digit # add the digits together.
Notice here that 6*2=12, add 1 and 2 together and get 3.
Then add all of these digits together:

If the SIN is valid this # will be evenly divisible by 10.

This is a 'valid' SIN.

The first digit of a SIN indicates province of registration.
•1 = NB, NF, NS, PE
•2 = QC
•3 = QC
•4 = ON
•5 = ON
•6 = AB, MB, SK, NT, NU
•7 = BC, YU
•8 = Not Used
•9 = Immigrants & other temp SIN's
•0 = Not Used

When it comes to SIN Statistics ... Government before God is the rule of law.

To be serious for a moment, everything points to "sin" being a religious invention to make you feel bad. By equating lust, envy, laziness, and fighting with your parents with murder, extortion, fraud, and listening to Nickelback, the aim appears to be to make people feel bad about their human nature.

The goal is to emotionally beat you up, to make you feel unworthy, to make you feel like a "sinner". Because everyone does many of the above, or whatever list of Christian "sins" you can compile.

Once you agree to feel bad about that, then you're sold the cure. Once you believe in Jesus, you can be sure he died for your sins. Suddenly, you're not so bad anymore. Everyone else is. Isn't that great! They're the sinners and you're the holy one. Because Jesus.

I see it as emotional blackmail. It's a stupid and dangerous belief, and it's wielded like a weapon because it is a weapon.

This is another reason why I say laughter is the best antidote to religion. You need to strip "sin" of it's legitimacy, because it has none. Mocking it and tearing it down is how you fight ideas like this that were not founded on reason and are immune to it.

This is my view ----

We are born with a Sin Nature which is passed on from generation to generation dating back to Adam who committed a transgression against God's Command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil -----
The Sin itself is not passed on ---Iniquity is passed on ------Iniquity is never preached on in most churches --Many do not kown what Iniquity is ----to understand sin ---iniquity and trangression need to be understood -----in my view
As Rev John said above ---Sin means to miss the mark -----you can sin against God or a person -----Exodus 10:16 give an example of this -----

Sin is doing the opposite of what is right

Sin is doing something that has negative results ---

Sin falls short of the Glory of God in my view

What Our Sin Nature does in my view is --it makes us gravitate naturally toward us being selfish ---prideful and envious ------

Sin leads us to a downward progression which brings Trangression ---that is we do what we don't want to do even though we know it is not right to do -----the desire takes over even though we know it will have bad consequenses for us ----we have no restraints to stop it ---

Sin leads to transgression ------A transgression is acutally crossing the line ---Like Adam did in the Garden -----Adam had the desire to try the Fruit ---and he could have put on the breaks to stop the desire but he didn't he crossed the line ------
Adultery is an example ----we have first the desire to be with the person ---we know that if caught it will cause bad results but we ignore the bad results and break God's law ---we cross the fence between doing what is right and we do what is wrong ---

Transgression is a willilfull trusspassing of a Law ------The speed limit is 100 and you decide that you will go 120 regardless of the law set at 100 ----you have transgressed the law of the land


Iniquity is very important to understand as it is Iniquity that is passed on from Generation to Generation ----it is the Generational Curse that is passed on and this is not talked about in Churches today ---it is not explained to the Church and it should be in my view -----

You should actually read all of this ---I am just posting some of it

https://biblehub.com/topical/i/iniquity.htm

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
INIQUITY

in-ik'-wi-ti (`awon; anomia): In the Old Testament of the 11 words translated "iniquity," by far the most common and important is `awon (about 215 times). Etymologically, it is customary to explain it as meaning literally "crookedness," "perverseness," i.e. evil regarded as that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion (from `iwwah, "to bend," "make crooked," "pervert"). Driver, however (following Lagarde), maintains that two roots, distinct in Arabic, have been confused in Hebrew, one equals "to bend," "pervert" (as above), and the other equals "to err," "go astray"; that `awon is derived from the latter, and consequently expresses the idea of error, deviation from the right path, rather than that of perversion (Driver, Notes on Sam, 135 note) Whichever etymology is adopted, in actual usage it has three meanings which almost imperceptibly pass into each other:
Primarily, it denotes "not an action, but the character of an action" (Oehler), and is so distinguished from "sin" (chaTTa'th). Hence, we have the expression "the iniquity of my sin" (Psalm 32:5).
Thus the meaning glides into that of "guilt," which might often take the place of "iniquity" as the translation of `awon (Genesis 15:16 Exodus 34:7 Jeremiah 2:22, etc.). From "guilt" it again passes into the meaning of "punishment of guilt," just as Latin piaculum may denote both guilt and its punishment.

So understanding Iniquity we can see that it is not the Sin that is passed from one Generastion to another it is the Character of the Sin that is passed on -----which is known as the Generational Curse ---this is still in effect today ----

this is the Scripture below ---read all the chapter yourselves ---
verse 18 ---18 ‘The Lord is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation

-https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+14&version=NKJV

Numbers 14 New King James Version (NKJV)
Israel Refuses to Enter Canaan

Moses Intercedes for the People
13 And Moses said to the Lord: "Then the Egyptians will hear it, for by Your might You brought these people up from among them, 14 and they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, Lord, are among these people; that You, Lord, are seen face to face and Your cloud stands above them, and You go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night. 15 Now if You kill these people as one man, then the nations which have heard of Your fame will speak, saying, 16 ‘Because the Lord was not able to bring this people to the land which He swore to give them, therefore He killed them in the wilderness.’ 17 And now, I pray, let the power of my Lord be great, just as You have spoken, saying,

18 ‘The Lord is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.’

19 Pardon the iniquity of this people, I pray, according to the greatness of Your mercy, just as You have forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now."


I say --------Now some will say but the scripture says that the fathers sin will not be passed on to the son -or daughter -the sins the Father committed are his and the son or daughter when old enough to understand what is right and wrong will be responsible for his or her own sins -----it is not the sins the Father did ---it is the crooked --perverse nature that is passed on it is the character of the sinful action of the Father that is passed on ----

read here if your interested ----

https://www.gotquestions.org/sins-of-the-father.html

Question: "Does a son bear any responsibility for the sins of the father?"


I say ------The Great thing for True Christ-ians is ---Jesus took iniquity with him on the cross so anyone who has received Jesus in their heart has conquered passing on iniquity to their Children ----Iniquity has be dealt with ----

Isaiah 53 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Sin-Bearing Messiah

53 Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no [a]form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no [c]beauty that we should desire Him.
3 He is despised and [d]rejected by men,
A Man of [e]sorrows and acquainted with [f]grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely He has borne our [g]griefs
And carried our [h]sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
[j]Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded[k] for our transgressions,
He was [l]bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes[m] we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;

And the Lord [n]has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.



All true Christ-ians have to do is receive by God's Grace through Faith that Iniquity no longer is a concern for them ----Powerful --- ---All Glory is God's

What is right in a world where knowledge and science are considered sinful as an observational trend?

Observation needs light in a world where the shadow prevails! However the light went down in a form called descent!

Indecent without poor no graphics when you can't see ...

Ritafee said:

If you get a 2 digit # add the digits together.
Notice here that 6*2=12, add 1 and 2 together and get 3.
Then add all of these digits together:

1+6+0+3+9+4+5+8+4=40​

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Ritafee, you've just added another sin to Pavros's extensive and extremely well researched list of sins.

There I was, back in High School, looking horrified at a blackboard of numbers, wondering how could anyone make sense of it?

Quoting numbers/arithmetic/mathematics to those of us who find it incomprehensible is a sin.

Pavlos Maros said:

According to scripture and the dictionary. Sin is against God 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

There are 613 commandments((Laws)including the ten major ones), so if you break any one of those you have sinned.

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Thank you for this - when I do a sermon concerning sin, I'll be indebted to you for doing my research. (Oh, oh -I've just committed the sin of laziness.)

PilgrimsProgress said:

Ritafee, you've just added another sin to Pavros's extensive and extremely well researched list of sins.

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I see I've just called Pavlos by the wrong name/avatar -is this a mere transgression or a sin?

I have to admit - I don't often think about sin.

Carolla said:

I have to admit - I don't often think about sin.

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Sinner!

Thanks for playing "Sinner or Not a Sinner!"

What parting gift do we have for Carolla, unsafe?

Oh wait. It's hell.

If God is the word ... and the word is God ... if we don't understand extensive word ... is that a sin?

So many just don't get the metaphor when turned about like Hebrew! Things like word need to be observed from all dimensions ... an extensive search ...

We've been working through a Michael Dowd DVD series on Tuesday nights and he has some interesting concepts of "sin".

To define something as a "sin" or "evil" or "good" for that matter, one must look at the impacts of the choice seven generations into the future. For example, if we simply, as a world, just watch the current extinction and climate crises without making any attempts at mitigation, I suspect that seven generations out, if we make it that far, our apathy will be judged as evil. Similarly, looking at the past, Residental Schools had plenty of justification in the eye of politicians and policy-makers. Four or so generations out, I think we can be quite convinced that those schools and that justification were "sinful".