Informative Article on God's Unconditional and Conditional Love ------
- Thread starter unsafe
- Start date
Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
Unsafe, it's pleasing to see that you have at least modified your stance from a blanket denial of God's love being unconditional to a yes/no answer - it demonstrates that you are considering the matter further.
But why would you even want to worship a God who does the all to common trait of selecting some people to love at the expense of others?
Even if God would prefer the company of non-sinners in Heaven (if God could find such a human) -why send them to Hell, isn't leaving them out of paradise enough of a punishment?
Why would the God of unconditional love sacrifice his son for the "benefit" of mankind - surely a God of unconditional love would sacrifice himself -and not his son???
The reality of Jesus's crucifixion is that it was a political assassination. Neither God or Jesus wanted it to occur - and both were powerless to prevent it. The God of unconditional love worked through the disciples and followers of the Way, to bring about the best solution possible for the common good -when presented with the fact of the crucifixion. I believe the God of unconditional love continues this work of working through and with us to bring about the common good to this very day.
Fact. The Bible was written by humans - not God. We humans thrive on stories, and humans -after the crucifixion - constructed stories (the Gospels differ).
I have constructed my own story, just as the Bible writers have - but I know that it is my story - and was written and believed by me, and it would be presumptuous of me to state categorically that it's God's story.
Why would I construct such a story? Because the story is not my faith -it's the framework for my faith and the way to live out my life.
My faith believes in the God of unconditional love and the Jesus that said to love God and love our neighbour -and, yes, even our enemies.
But why would you even want to worship a God who does the all to common trait of selecting some people to love at the expense of others?
Even if God would prefer the company of non-sinners in Heaven (if God could find such a human) -why send them to Hell, isn't leaving them out of paradise enough of a punishment?
Why would the God of unconditional love sacrifice his son for the "benefit" of mankind - surely a God of unconditional love would sacrifice himself -and not his son???
The reality of Jesus's crucifixion is that it was a political assassination. Neither God or Jesus wanted it to occur - and both were powerless to prevent it. The God of unconditional love worked through the disciples and followers of the Way, to bring about the best solution possible for the common good -when presented with the fact of the crucifixion. I believe the God of unconditional love continues this work of working through and with us to bring about the common good to this very day.
Fact. The Bible was written by humans - not God. We humans thrive on stories, and humans -after the crucifixion - constructed stories (the Gospels differ).
I have constructed my own story, just as the Bible writers have - but I know that it is my story - and was written and believed by me, and it would be presumptuous of me to state categorically that it's God's story.
Why would I construct such a story? Because the story is not my faith -it's the framework for my faith and the way to live out my life.
My faith believes in the God of unconditional love and the Jesus that said to love God and love our neighbour -and, yes, even our enemies.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Mendalla -----No, that is not my opinion. That is how English grammar works.
That may be your opinion ---but I am not working with your worldly grammar -----I am working with Bible Grammar ---2 different grammars -----that is the way I see it for me ----you see it your way --I see it my way ----- again it comes done to belief in what the word is saying and understanding the word through Spiritual means not human means ---
There is not one Scripture that backs up God' who is Love as protruding it to be completely unconditional ------and God doesn't give out His Love to us ----God is Love ---that is who God is --and ----God's Love is available to us by Grace alone ---We can't do anything to earn this Love ----and we humans have taken it to a very bad extreme and have used and abused this unconditional love thing to mean that His Love that He will save us in the end without us having to respond to God at all and that is just the mentality that we humans have made by Preaching and Teaching bad Doctrine to our church ----- Wrongly dividing God's word
God sent His Only Son to Die to Save Humanity ----that is God who is Love --- no condition placed on humanity for God to do this selfless Act ----Then He never puts any demand on anyone to accept this free Gift -----He allows us to choose and those that choose to accept they do so because they are responding to that Love who is God --That Love calls and one responds by and through Faith ----- and obeys His will ---The --IF You--- in scripture is all about Love -----no demand to accept --choice to choose to respond or not ----
God could demand and say you will except my Son and---- Bingo Bango Bongo ----you would except Him and have no choice -----He didn't give Jonah a choice ---He quickly put him in the belly of a whale and left him there for a few days --that is God demanding and using His Sovereignty to get the job done ----so don't kid yourself He could make all people do whatever He wants ---- but He said ---If you --out of Love which is who He is ------
If we don't respond to the Love offer --we will reap the consequence for that and God who is Love will respect our decision ----and still love us as we reject Him -----
This is how I see it ----Spiritually not Humanly ---you can see it as you like ----
That may be your opinion ---but I am not working with your worldly grammar -----I am working with Bible Grammar ---2 different grammars -----that is the way I see it for me ----you see it your way --I see it my way ----- again it comes done to belief in what the word is saying and understanding the word through Spiritual means not human means ---
There is not one Scripture that backs up God' who is Love as protruding it to be completely unconditional ------and God doesn't give out His Love to us ----God is Love ---that is who God is --and ----God's Love is available to us by Grace alone ---We can't do anything to earn this Love ----and we humans have taken it to a very bad extreme and have used and abused this unconditional love thing to mean that His Love that He will save us in the end without us having to respond to God at all and that is just the mentality that we humans have made by Preaching and Teaching bad Doctrine to our church ----- Wrongly dividing God's word
God sent His Only Son to Die to Save Humanity ----that is God who is Love --- no condition placed on humanity for God to do this selfless Act ----Then He never puts any demand on anyone to accept this free Gift -----He allows us to choose and those that choose to accept they do so because they are responding to that Love who is God --That Love calls and one responds by and through Faith ----- and obeys His will ---The --IF You--- in scripture is all about Love -----no demand to accept --choice to choose to respond or not ----
God could demand and say you will except my Son and---- Bingo Bango Bongo ----you would except Him and have no choice -----He didn't give Jonah a choice ---He quickly put him in the belly of a whale and left him there for a few days --that is God demanding and using His Sovereignty to get the job done ----so don't kid yourself He could make all people do whatever He wants ---- but He said ---If you --out of Love which is who He is ------
If we don't respond to the Love offer --we will reap the consequence for that and God who is Love will respect our decision ----and still love us as we reject Him -----
This is how I see it ----Spiritually not Humanly ---you can see it as you like ----
unsafe
Well-Known Member
[U]PilgrimsProgress[/U] -----Fact. The Bible was written by humans - not God. We humans thrive on stories, and humans -after the crucifixion - constructed stories (the Gospels differ).
That may be your Fact --but that is definitely not what the scripture says and that is definitely not what I believe ----where did you get your info from ???????
That may be your Fact --but that is definitely not what the scripture says and that is definitely not what I believe ----where did you get your info from ???????
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
It's called Making God in our own immage , people do it every day.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Bull. Pure bull. There are either conditions or there aren't. Since you say there are, then God:s Love is conditional. I have no stake in this spiritually since I don't believe in God but I hate seeing language mangled and misused.
PilgrimsProgress
Well-Known Member
Er, my info came from the Bible????????????????
If God wrote the Bible why would God write the four gospels in different writing styles?
Even if you would allow the more accepted belief that the writers of the Bible were inspired by God - it still doesn't explain why the "facts" aren't identical.
Why does the Gospel of Mark end before the other Gospels -did Mark run out of papyrus? (Now I'm being facetious!)
I find it bewildering how you use so many question marks - yet don't ask questions of the text yourself?
*Sigh* An unexamined theology fits into the same category as an unexamined life, i.m.o.
God ... the word thereof appears to be controversial!
I stated before on WC2 that I once attended a funeral where the pastor opened with: "there are no conflicts in the bible!"
Thus Armageddon is a fantasy .. and abstract of psyche .... and additionally I'm told there is no such thing as psyche ... so that too is out there! So many things and non-things that are now departed ... denied entry to the emotional circles!
Why Jesus gave us water ... for to cool it! Thus the feet in Marah idea!
I stated before on WC2 that I once attended a funeral where the pastor opened with: "there are no conflicts in the bible!"
Thus Armageddon is a fantasy .. and abstract of psyche .... and additionally I'm told there is no such thing as psyche ... so that too is out there! So many things and non-things that are now departed ... denied entry to the emotional circles!
Why Jesus gave us water ... for to cool it! Thus the feet in Marah idea!
unsafe
Well-Known Member
[U]PilgrimsProgress----your[/U] quote ----Er, my info came from the Bible????????????????
So this info you quoted above ----Fact. The Bible was written by humans - not God.
So your Fact Did bot come From God's word -----as the word says it WAS God Inspired and it also says that NO Prophesy was Ever given by Man ------
So in Fact you are doing what blackbelt1961 stated above which is this ------ It's called Making God in our own immage , people do it every day.
The Greek word for Inspired is ---it is a pretty powerful word if you are really into finding truth ---
Strong's Concordance
theopneustos: God-breathed, i.e. inspired by God
HELPS Word-studies
2315 theópneustos (from 2316 /theós, "God" and 4154 /pnéō, "breathe out") – properly, God-breathed, referring to the divine inspiration (inbreathing) of Scripture (used only in 2 Tim 3:16).
2315 /theópneustos ("God-breathed"), likely a term coined by Paul, "expresses the sacred nature of the Scriptures (their divine origin) and their power to sanctify believers" (C. Spicq, 2, 193).
[Inbreathing (2315 /theópneustos) relates directly to God's Spirit (Gk pneuma) which can also be translated "breath."]
2 Tim 3:16: "Each-and-every (3956 /pás, singular) Scripture (Gk, singular) is God-breathed (2315 /theópneustos) and profitable for teaching, for convincing, for correction, for training in righteousness."
The singular (anarthrous) use of 3956 /pás ("all") underlines that each part of speech (every inflected word-form, "reflex") used in the Bible is God-breathed, i.e. inscripturated (written) under divine inspiration.
[G. Archer, "2315 (theópneustos) is better rendered 'breathed out by God' as the emphasis is upon the divine origin of the inscripturated revelation itself" (A Survey of OT Introduction, fn. 7, 29).]
your quote here ------We humans thrive on stories, and humans -after the crucifixion - constructed stories (the Gospels differ).
To you they maybe stories ------but for me the words are alive and active when I put my Faith in the words into the right action ------I have been doing it since 1984 when I received Jesus in my heart and I have had great results ---- I say don't change what is working so well ------
For you the Bible is just what you want it to be ----you take it and make it say and do what you want it to say and do for you----you make it in your own image and that is your right and God will still Love you even as you disbelieve His word or say it is just stories to suit your need -
As far as people saying the Bible contradicts itself and the writings are not right and the authors are not in the right place etc --etc ---etc ----for me that is Mr Satan Himself doing what he does best ---taking the focus off the truth of the word and bringing into his flock doubt and unbelief of the truth ---
So you continue on your Doubt and Unbelief path that God is Not the author of every word in Scripture---- and I will continue on my belief path putting my Faith in the Scripture that God did breath the words to the authors who wrote what they were told to write not what they themselves wanted to right ------
it comes again down to belief and unbelief of the Word ------
So this info you quoted above ----Fact. The Bible was written by humans - not God.
So your Fact Did bot come From God's word -----as the word says it WAS God Inspired and it also says that NO Prophesy was Ever given by Man ------
So in Fact you are doing what blackbelt1961 stated above which is this ------ It's called Making God in our own immage , people do it every day.
The Greek word for Inspired is ---it is a pretty powerful word if you are really into finding truth ---
Strong's Concordance
theopneustos: God-breathed, i.e. inspired by God
HELPS Word-studies
2315 theópneustos (from 2316 /theós, "God" and 4154 /pnéō, "breathe out") – properly, God-breathed, referring to the divine inspiration (inbreathing) of Scripture (used only in 2 Tim 3:16).
2315 /theópneustos ("God-breathed"), likely a term coined by Paul, "expresses the sacred nature of the Scriptures (their divine origin) and their power to sanctify believers" (C. Spicq, 2, 193).
[Inbreathing (2315 /theópneustos) relates directly to God's Spirit (Gk pneuma) which can also be translated "breath."]
2 Tim 3:16: "Each-and-every (3956 /pás, singular) Scripture (Gk, singular) is God-breathed (2315 /theópneustos) and profitable for teaching, for convincing, for correction, for training in righteousness."
The singular (anarthrous) use of 3956 /pás ("all") underlines that each part of speech (every inflected word-form, "reflex") used in the Bible is God-breathed, i.e. inscripturated (written) under divine inspiration.
[G. Archer, "2315 (theópneustos) is better rendered 'breathed out by God' as the emphasis is upon the divine origin of the inscripturated revelation itself" (A Survey of OT Introduction, fn. 7, 29).]
your quote here ------We humans thrive on stories, and humans -after the crucifixion - constructed stories (the Gospels differ).
To you they maybe stories ------but for me the words are alive and active when I put my Faith in the words into the right action ------I have been doing it since 1984 when I received Jesus in my heart and I have had great results ---- I say don't change what is working so well ------
For you the Bible is just what you want it to be ----you take it and make it say and do what you want it to say and do for you----you make it in your own image and that is your right and God will still Love you even as you disbelieve His word or say it is just stories to suit your need -
As far as people saying the Bible contradicts itself and the writings are not right and the authors are not in the right place etc --etc ---etc ----for me that is Mr Satan Himself doing what he does best ---taking the focus off the truth of the word and bringing into his flock doubt and unbelief of the truth ---
So you continue on your Doubt and Unbelief path that God is Not the author of every word in Scripture---- and I will continue on my belief path putting my Faith in the Scripture that God did breath the words to the authors who wrote what they were told to write not what they themselves wanted to right ------
it comes again down to belief and unbelief of the Word ------
[U]PilgrimsProgress----your[/U] quote ----Er, my info came from the Bible????????????????
So this info you quoted above ----Fact. The Bible was written by humans - not God.
So your Fact Did bot come From God's word -----as the word says it WAS God Inspired and it also says that NO Prophesy was Ever given by Man ------
So in Fact you are doing what blackbelt1961 stated above which is this ------ It's called Making God in our own immage , people do it every day.
The Greek word for Inspired is ---it is a pretty powerful word if you are really into finding truth ---
Strong's Concordance
theopneustos: God-breathed, i.e. inspired by God
HELPS Word-studies
2315 theópneustos (from 2316 /theós, "God" and 4154 /pnéō, "breathe out") – properly, God-breathed, referring to the divine inspiration (inbreathing) of Scripture (used only in 2 Tim 3:16).
2315 /theópneustos ("God-breathed"), likely a term coined by Paul, "expresses the sacred nature of the Scriptures (their divine origin) and their power to sanctify believers" (C. Spicq, 2, 193).
[Inbreathing (2315 /theópneustos) relates directly to God's Spirit (Gk pneuma) which can also be translated "breath."]
2 Tim 3:16: "Each-and-every (3956 /pás, singular) Scripture (Gk, singular) is God-breathed (2315 /theópneustos) and profitable for teaching, for convincing, for correction, for training in righteousness."
The singular (anarthrous) use of 3956 /pás ("all") underlines that each part of speech (every inflected word-form, "reflex") used in the Bible is God-breathed, i.e. inscripturated (written) under divine inspiration.
[G. Archer, "2315 (theópneustos) is better rendered 'breathed out by God' as the emphasis is upon the divine origin of the inscripturated revelation itself" (A Survey of OT Introduction, fn. 7, 29).]
your quote here ------We humans thrive on stories, and humans -after the crucifixion - constructed stories (the Gospels differ).
To you they maybe stories ------but for me the words are alive and active when I put my Faith in the words into the right action ------I have been doing it since 1984 when I received Jesus in my heart and I have had great results ---- I say don't change what is working so well ------
For you the Bible is just what you want it to be ----you take it and make it say and do what you want it to say and do for you----you make it in your own image and that is your right and God will still Love you even as you disbelieve His word or say it is just stories to suit your need -
As far as people saying the Bible contradicts itself and the writings are not right and the authors are not in the right place etc --etc ---etc ----for me that is Mr Satan Himself doing what he does best ---taking the focus off the truth of the word and bringing into his flock doubt and unbelief of the truth ---
So you continue on your Doubt and Unbelief path that God is Not the author of every word in Scripture---- and I will continue on my belief path putting my Faith in the Scripture that God did breath the words to the authors who wrote what they were told to write not what they themselves wanted to right ------
it comes again down to belief and unbelief of the Word ------
Then the biblical word does say to question all things ... and some folk are very resistant to questions for fear something might change!
Essence of growth factor ... resembles djinns!
unsafe
Well-Known Member
[U]Luce NDs[/U] ----your quote -----Then the biblical word does say to question all things
This is my opinion on your statement here
The Bible says no such thing ------
the Bible says to test everything -------meaning to test the Spirit who is speaking to you -----
1 Thessalonians 5:21-22(EXB)
21 But test everything. ·Keep [Hold on to] what is good, 22 and stay away from ·everything that is [every form/kind of] evil.
the Greek word for---- test in this scripture is ------
Strong's Concordance
dokimazo: I put to the test, prove, examine
1. to test, examine, prove, scrutinize (to see whether a thing be genuine or not), 1 Thessalonians 5:21
A True Christ-ian will be able to discern what is good and what is evil ---discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit
Satan got Eve to question God's Command and the results if disobeyed ---you won't surly die ? ---
Satan put doubt and uncertainty in Eve's Mind about God's word ------that is what questioning does
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/to-call-something-into-question
Definition of 'to call something into question'
If you say that there is some question about something, you mean that there is doubt or uncertainty about it. If something is in question or has been called into question, doubt or uncertainty has been expressed about it.
The True Christ-ian does not doubt God's word -----they rely on it by discernment ----they have the Helper to call on
This is my opinion on your statement here
The Bible says no such thing ------
the Bible says to test everything -------meaning to test the Spirit who is speaking to you -----
1 Thessalonians 5:21-22(EXB)
21 But test everything. ·Keep [Hold on to] what is good, 22 and stay away from ·everything that is [every form/kind of] evil.
the Greek word for---- test in this scripture is ------
Strong's Concordance
dokimazo: I put to the test, prove, examine
1. to test, examine, prove, scrutinize (to see whether a thing be genuine or not), 1 Thessalonians 5:21
A True Christ-ian will be able to discern what is good and what is evil ---discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit
Satan got Eve to question God's Command and the results if disobeyed ---you won't surly die ? ---
Satan put doubt and uncertainty in Eve's Mind about God's word ------that is what questioning does
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/to-call-something-into-question
Definition of 'to call something into question'
If you say that there is some question about something, you mean that there is doubt or uncertainty about it. If something is in question or has been called into question, doubt or uncertainty has been expressed about it.
The True Christ-ian does not doubt God's word -----they rely on it by discernment ----they have the Helper to call on
There ... I've been eliminated and denied again by a self made christian ... so much for encompassing the test and questions!
The narrow line continues between the opposing parts of God ... allowing for the conflict and competition!
Some of us survive in the tapestry of whollies .. with the itch to know more than that provided by the thin lines ...
That's OK UNSAFE as I experienced a great deal of rejection by the encompassing church of the secular world ... in the essence it is different... haunting even ... kind've cloudy considering all that is to be learned beyond the singular book!
Imagine that there is more than a singularized tome ... extend the cognate! Then the metaphor goes on and on ...
There were some scientists that considered Uncertainty and Exclusion Theories ... it was found to work with Schrodinger ... in waves like the cat in the dark spot ... down in New Orleans it even developed Jazzes ... sort of like Daffyd ... in the streets of Jerusalem! The dance continues between those that state they know eternal things and us that deny much of this fixed wisdom.
No growth, or a gnostic gob set free with the noodle? UN-civil social orders ... tis an Eris given how it goes so fast ... ever read Kahneman's book: Fast and Slow Thinking? Sort of like the Sounds of Silence and the biblical thing about great listening ... well done while alone with ideals! Alternate folks are just bad ... one must accept the fracture ... heavenly rapture?
Imagine churches wishing to grow #'s with such conditions! Should one enjoy god's farther parts ...
The narrow line continues between the opposing parts of God ... allowing for the conflict and competition!
Some of us survive in the tapestry of whollies .. with the itch to know more than that provided by the thin lines ...
That's OK UNSAFE as I experienced a great deal of rejection by the encompassing church of the secular world ... in the essence it is different... haunting even ... kind've cloudy considering all that is to be learned beyond the singular book!
Imagine that there is more than a singularized tome ... extend the cognate! Then the metaphor goes on and on ...
There were some scientists that considered Uncertainty and Exclusion Theories ... it was found to work with Schrodinger ... in waves like the cat in the dark spot ... down in New Orleans it even developed Jazzes ... sort of like Daffyd ... in the streets of Jerusalem! The dance continues between those that state they know eternal things and us that deny much of this fixed wisdom.
No growth, or a gnostic gob set free with the noodle? UN-civil social orders ... tis an Eris given how it goes so fast ... ever read Kahneman's book: Fast and Slow Thinking? Sort of like the Sounds of Silence and the biblical thing about great listening ... well done while alone with ideals! Alternate folks are just bad ... one must accept the fracture ... heavenly rapture?
Imagine churches wishing to grow #'s with such conditions! Should one enjoy god's farther parts ...
Last edited:
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Aren't secrets in church called sacred communications ... discrete non-stuff in essence? Iconic as Nietzsche with his comment on chaos, all is chaos.
Thus some folks are designated to stir fresh idea r's ... like the bum OX ... and someday we Kiss it goodbye ... as it stopped labouring ... what a donkey that was! --- Cervantes? And the odd thing is the cervical bones are just under the skull ... who fabricated this body of thought ... I feel as deflated as a Shadow persona! Don't show, don't tell until night'Skye (ka) appears ... "ka" that's the illusive essence where dreams form! Imagine frogs ...
Under the auspices of Eve something will be druid out of nothing ... dark arts? And God hid Adam under the trees with other unknowns ... like Judah and Tamar characters set free ... Judah was flattened ... an ABBA'd joke?
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
because its 4 eyewitnesses of the same event, which actually gives credence to the gospels. aka Good news, that the Son of the Most Highest has Come for you and me.
Kinda like a car accident and the cops interviewing all witnesses, all see or explain in there own words, but the general outcome is exactly the same.
if all witnesses were saying the exact same thing, the cops would suspect collusion among witnesses and their truthfulness would diminish
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
You've used this analogy before. It was explained to you then why it doesn't hold water.
Guess what? It STILL doesn't hold water.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
The abstract mind has trouble with right, left, up, down, back and forth ... even Einsteins said that abstract space had indefinite directions ... and thus the greatest mixups ... so as to allow creation by quantu*morder ... mortifying sense of passions?
After that something was lost, loosed, or perhaps Lucid! Then we study gas kinetics ... the bumps increase as the heat increases ... something may be expected! Thus the Celtic Duncan ... so much blarney ... ID oesa' Muse!
Even words have flaws and gaps ... they too shift with time and history!
After that something was lost, loosed, or perhaps Lucid! Then we study gas kinetics ... the bumps increase as the heat increases ... something may be expected! Thus the Celtic Duncan ... so much blarney ... ID oesa' Muse!
Even words have flaws and gaps ... they too shift with time and history!
Last edited: