Adultery - What is it?

[Mendalla]

In a thread in Family Life, @revjohn wrote a nice discourse on the Bible and adultery which included the following (and I'm quoting John for discussion, not suggesting he believes or advocates this. He can chime in with his own understanding if he wishes.):

Biblically speaking everyone is celibate until marriage. Biblically speaking marriage is the act of cleaving one to another which is why early, biblical punishments for raping virgins was to be married to them or, if that was not an option, paying the brideprice and assuming that the damaged goods would never be married to anyone ever.

Biblically speaking anyone who is not with whomever they lost their virginity to is guilty of adultery. And if you lose your virginity to someone who lost their virginity to someone else and is not a widow you have, biblically speaking, committed adultery.

So, if I read this right, if Janet loses her virginity to Bob when she is eighteen (never married, just kids fooling around), then they break up and she marries George when she is 22, she is an adulterer? And so is George even though Janet is his first?

If I read that right, this definition makes me and a host of other people that I know adulterers in a Biblical sense and it strikes me as altogether too broad to be useful unless you are a Bible thumping control freak.

However, I don't think I have ever thought of it that way in spite of a nominally Christian upbringing nor do I think most people do. The generally accepted societal definition/understanding of adultery seems to me to be "engaging in sexual or romantic relations with someone while in a committed sexual/romantic relationship with someone else".

So, by this definition, if Janet marries Bob at eighteen, then starts up a relationship with George when she is 22 and still married to Bob, she is an adulterer as is George (though I would go the extra step and say that he can't be guilty of adultery if he doesn't know so it depends). That I can get. Still probably makes for an awful lot of adulterers but a lot fewer than the Biblical definition.

So, how do you folks define/understand "adultery"? Biblically? By the more restrictive social definition? Something else?

Are open relationships and swinging adultery or does the fact that the partners know of and and consent to the activities in these situations move those activities out of that realm?

Is it even that big a big deal anymore? I know I tend to shrug and go "Que sera" when yet another adultery scandal erupts in politics or some celebrity gets caught with their pants/skirt down.

Talk it up but keep it respectful, eh.

 

[Mendalla]

And, IMHO, my examples do hold true for same sex relationships.

ie. you could change Bob into Brenda and/or George into Georgia and the examples would still hold.

Whether the participants are hetero-, homo-, or bisexual has nothing to do with whether an activity constitutes adultery.

 

[Luce NDs]

Should they be adult ... sufficient to know what is involved in such adventures ... like consequence or sometimes know as the possible result of conception ... do yah think?

 

[Luce NDs]

And, IMHO, my examples do hold true for same sex relationships.

ie. you could change Bob into Brenda and/or George into Georgia and the examples would still hold.

Whether the participants are hetero-, homo-, or bisexual has nothing to do with whether an activity constitutes adultery.

Thus the strange things going on under the bridges down in GEO Gaia? Sort of earthy and poetically fertile inclusions?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

What is it? It's crappy and hurtful, and I think, selfish and immature and shows lack of self discipline. I say, non-biblical definition. The bible says thinking about sex with someone else is adultery. That's extreme, so is accusing a virgin who was raped of adultery. That's ludicrous.

Thinking about sex with someone other than one's spouse once in awhile, in the imagination, not adultery. People can't completely block their thoughts. Obsessing about it, borders on it...because it raises the likelihood of acting on those thoughts. Acting on them with another person who is not a spouse or spouse-like committed partner is adultery. I think other things come close to it and can be almost as hurtful and selfish, would destroy relationships, then tearing apart families, which would also affect kids if there are any...and they are therefore just as wrong behaviour but wouldn't stand up in divorce court as adultery.

Don't be like Bill (NSFW - will be offensive to some, do not click on link if you're not sure).

http://www.cbc.ca/punchline/pics/dont-be-like-bill

(And by the way...I've given my opinion and am not responding to responses. Boundary up.)

 

[Mendalla]

(And by the way...I've given my opinion and am not responding to responses. Boundary up.)

Fully understand knowing your situation.

And NSFW or not, that is funny and insightful.

 

[RitaTG]

Did not Jesus clarify this at one point????
Seems to me Matthew 5:28 provides insight

 

[Mendalla]

Did not Jesus clarify this at one point????
Seems to me Matthew 5:28 provides insight

Forgot that one.

I disagree with Jesus here (as an ex-Christian, I reserve the right to do so and would happily say it to his face). Looking at someone lustfully is hardly the stuff of sin and guilt. It is, IMHO, part of our biological wiring and not something we are even in control of. We don't have to go further with it (that we can control) and if we do, then we may cross lines. But seeing someone (I'm not going to restrict to women or men here) and thinking they are hot? Not adultery. Not in my book.

 

[Mendalla]

Minor amendment: If we consciously go looking for people to lust after (e.g. surf porn sites or hit the beach to ogle the bikini bods and boys in Speedos), then that is probably something a bit different than going "Oo, I'd hit that" about a random person we happen to see on the street.

 

[Jae]

Forgot that one.

I disagree with Jesus here (as an ex-Christian, I reserve the right to do so and would happily say it to his face). Looking at someone lustfully is hardly the stuff of sin and guilt. It is, IMHO, part of our biological wiring and not something we are even in control of. We don't have to go further with it (that we can control) and if we do, then we may cross lines. But seeing someone (I'm not going to restrict to women or men here) and thinking they are hot? Not adultery. Not in my book.

I feel that what Jesus is speaking of in this verse isn't just seeing someone and finding that someone attractive. Rather, it is scheming and acting out ways in order to get busy with them.

 

[Seeler]

I would consider if two people are in a relationship, whether legally married according to the law and/or the church or not, and that relationship has not been terminated - the engaging in consensual sex with another person is adultery. The relationship is terminated, in my opinion, by mutual agreement, by divorce, or by long term separation even if one person doesn't agree.
(I knew a couple who were legally married by clergy, lived together for a year or so, then one of the couple left and moved to another province. In 40 years or so they never saw or heard from one another. If one or the other of them entered into another relationship I wouldn't consider it adultery.)

 

[RitaTG]

Good discussion so far

 

[Mendalla]

I feel that what Jesus is speaking of in this verse isn't just seeing someone and finding that someone attractive. Rather, it is scheming and acting out ways in order to get busy with them.

Which makes sense to me, but that is clearly a matter of interpretation of what "looking at someone lustfully" means.

In terms of your last sentence, is fantasizing about someone that you know you will never actually meet and "get busy" with (say, a celebrity or distant FB friend) included? What about an involuntary erotic dream about someone near or distant? Does actual sex or the possibility of it have to be involved, or is simply thought enough?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

"Oh, I'd hit that?" ... Curious....Are those words fully formed in a conscious thought when that happens ? I understand the sentiment, the arousal, but those words...pop-culture, cheap demeaning, immature words that have pervaded our culture, become common. Adolescent words...agressive words, not those of adults who respect their sexual partners. Not trying to single you out Mendalla. I'm curious about the choice of words to describe a passing thought. They're popular words that reflect the thinking of a culture. Reflecting on that, not you.

 

[Waterfall]

Adultery......what country am I in? What year?

 

[Mendalla]

They're popular words that reflect the thinking of a culture.

Agreed, and it's not necessarily my culture, either. In my younger days, I don't think we used that particular turn of phrase though I cannot, for the life of me, think of what the comparable one for us was.

 

[Mendalla]

Adultery......what country am I in? What year?

If you don't know that, adultery is the least of your problems. (I jest)

Are you suggesting that it isn't even an issue anymore (which I alluded to in my OP)? Or that it's cultural, which it most certainly is and which is why I reject the strict Biblical definitions?

 

[Waterfall]

If you don't know that, adultery is the least of your problems. (I jest)

Are you suggesting that it isn't even an issue anymore (which I alluded to in my OP)? Or that it's cultural, which it most certainly is and which is why I reject the strict Biblical definitions?

I think it's cultural. In some countries a man can have four wives, a woman may look away when her husband has affairs as long as he comes home to his wife and children, some countries perpetuate the machismo/marianismo relationship, etc.....

I also think it's still an issue...it has the ability to break down societal norms that may put more pressure on those trying to keep their marriages together. It's hard on children, but so is an abusive marriage.

 

[Jae]

@Waterfall - Adultery is real. It's out there. It exists. I've seen 4/6 marriages in my immediate family either ended or badly damaged after adultery took place.

 

[Waterfall]

@Waterfall - Adultery is real. It's out there. It exists. I've seen 4/6 marriages in my immediate family either ended or badly damaged after adultery took place.

I know, did it sound like I didn't know it is real? I believe that it is.
I'm sure Jesus understood it too when he was talking to the lady who had 5 husbands.