A Divine desire for man

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dreamerman said:
Haha should have been your name and not you're.:) Anyway carry on.
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Thus the stew-art and the primal stew and chaos when missionary positions get you in that position of half baked ... I get an image of a religious man in a caldron! GB Shaw as shaman ... ???? Dis dark ...literature eh-bi?
 
GeoFee said:
Hi,Sorry. I'm with John the Baptist on this. We will repent or we will perish. This not in any metaphysical sense. Rather, this in a historical sense. Which I take to be the principal concern of the Bible. From various rabbis, including Jesus, I have learned that God calls me to responsibility on earth. I am answerable to God for my daily behaviour. This includes how I eat, how I dress and how I present myself in and through all of my relations. Basically summed up as "godliness with contentment is great gain".

What we now experience is the consequence of sin. Persons and peoples divided from the way of God by the seduction of this world and its way. The way of idolatry. Worshipping the work of our own hands. Something Isaiah notices with some sarcasm. We will either turn from this self destructive obsession or we will perish. History makes this quite clear. As does scripture.

Jesus says repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. This is an invitation to turn away from the way of the world and to turn to the way of heaven. Where treasure is not measured, weighed or counted. Treasure is experienced as the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Something our world is sadly in lack of. Having abandoned the straight and narrow way of life to embrace the many paths leading to death and destruction. Chief among them being the paths of politics and the paths of religion. It is in the path of freely chosen responsibility that only leads to life. To do what is right even where doing so is not expedient. Jesus makes this very clear to his followers. As does Socrates.

Above we hear a bible believer stating that we need not lament the state of the earth. We are not responsible for the psychic sickness by which air and water are profaned in the name of money. This inverts the whole of the prophetic witness to which followers of Jesus are called. They are not to accommodate their life practices to the way of the world. They are to forsake the way of the world and embrace the cross by which it is wholly contradicted. In doing so they are admitted to the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Being the diversely gifted members of God's human body in history.

There are many false shepherds in the earth. There is but one true shepherd. The former exploit the sheep in service to their own advantage. The latter gives all available energy and resources in service to the lost and the broken. Not to make them sons of hell as the entrepreneurial evangelists do. To feed and clothe them. To liberate them from their oppression and relieve them of their burdens. Real actions in real time. Actions which shine the light of God's word at the heart of the age's deep and deepening darkness.

God's sees the sparrow fall. God hears the cry of creation oppressed by human arrogance and rebellion. God will act to set right what we have set wrong. I am called, along with many others in the earth just now, to participate in that redemptive work. Not as one who sits at table to be served but as one who serves.

George
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Sparrows falling ...

Is this nothing to the earthly lords? God of the alternate kind help us think! Small bits ... chitz ...

Isn't there a legend, or ballad about when will "th'eM" will learn? Doesn't appear to be here and now ... as Pogo said apprise yourself of the enemy ... tis eM or us ... sometimes hard to differentiate by the foggy headed ones ... straight liners that can't see the bents in the way ... The Swerve speaks of that ...

I've been told by some ministers that it is a horrible read like some of the German theologians of past centuries ... could it be reverse psychology or some other reciprocal vision? Some question to pose some great Dai ... when Trump isn't wasting money on the Moon Vision ... the earth should be looked after too ... there is a minor following to this theme ... sometimes related to in Thesaurus as conspiracy! Rod J' Eire ... over and out with the irrational ... Ma Dan NG Crowed? Tis the cooling of the earth ... read the lyrics of Ed Ames song "Sometimes in the morning when shadows are deep ..."! Is that a wired effect ...
 
revjohn said:

Fair enough.

How is the created part of the Creator? And how does the will of the created manage to overwhelm the will of the Creator?

I don't think that you would find any objection, within Christianity, of humanity being created in the image and the likeness of God. What various Christians do with that concept is, in a word, confusing.
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Is a connection between oppositional Gods like Hermes ... or a lighter mode? Perhaps just a kind word ... without harsh edges ... lighter noises in the pining: "Dear lord bring down that dark cloud with the silver lining" ... a particularly peculiar mirror beyond the absolute leading to transience and abstracts?

Is sol is booted out would chi be out there with Psyche and Pistis Sophia ... that other chaos? Ethereal phoqah get it ... thus the clarity of OBI ... tis beyond us ... IDe*al come ...
 
Neo said:
I see the created part of the Creator like a lake with the potential of reflecting the heavens above.
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Fair enough. A lake reflecting the sky is not the lake participating in being the sky. My mirror image may be a reflection of me but if you shatter the mirror only the reflection suffers.

Neo said:
But due to selfish motives and desires, the waters are stirred an unable to reflect clearly. To "be perfect", as the Father is perfect is to "polish the mirror" and still the waters of self-interest. Once stilled, then the words "I and my Father are One" can be said in truth.
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Water seeks its own level. That action is impacted by the wind. Very little desire involved in that. In order for the lake to be stilled then all else needs to be similarly stilled. The reflections seen in the surface of the lake have nothing to do with the desire of water so much as it has everything to do with the properties of water and light.
Neo said:
Is your 2nd question because of Pfleger's statement that "Man is the supreme idea, the supreme concern and the supreme desire of God"? I read that as 'Man being a primary focus of God'. I don't see anything resembling God being 'overwhelmed' by that focus.
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No. It was motivated by your statement, "God's will could be working through us, if we allowed it to."
 
Perhaps God needed to get idear's and thoughts out og heaven ... a state of mind that is abstract?

Some folk would not wish to know such things as heavenly trash, white folk and fallout ... they may be consequence of fall in-lines with a bit of wiggle spats ... spatial? Keeps the crap off the Shue concept ... bird land?
 
Hi,
blackbelt1961 said:
we can use the word Sovereign if it fits better
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Sovereign carries the same connotations as control. It suggests a power above. This is seems something Jesus works very hard to overcome. We notice this in the passage where Jesus is speaking to his followers about the way of power in the world. It is privileged. Jesus makes it plain that he is not to be taken in that way. Jesus makes it clear that he is present as one who serves. The very opposite of one who is served; a sovereign. This is amplified in the Philippians passage, where Jesus is presented as one who humbles himself, taking the form of a servant.

Christianity right now is deeply compromised by its wrong understanding of who Jesus is and what Jesus makes possible in and through our faith. Organizations like Back to the Bible and Focus on the Family are wholly compromised by their complicity in the structures of power by which the earth and its peoples is being brought to the brink of destruction. The very idea of inviting stake holders to participate in pleasure cruises, which pander to base human appetite and generate massive damage to the coastal waters of the planet. This would be like Jesus inviting folk to eat at Herod's table. Not a very likely scenario.

George
 
GeoFee said:
Hi,Sovereign carries the same connotations as control. It suggests a power above.

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above us? not in the dimensional sense , but indeed it does


This is seems something Jesus works very hard to overcome.
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who's will is greater ? " not mine but thy will be done"

The very opposite of one who is served; a sovereign.
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yet still accepts worship as God , hmmmmmmm

we tend to forget who Jesus is, God/man , teaching as man, showing the way to the Father as man, yet Fully God who has attributes that you and I do not posses.

Christianity right now is deeply compromised by its wrong understanding of who Jesus is and what Jesus makes possible in and through our faith. Organizations like Back to the Bible and Focus on the Family are wholly compromised by their complicity in the structures of power by which the earth and its peoples is being brought to the brink of destruction. The very idea of inviting stake holders to participate in pleasure cruises, which pander to base human appetite and generate massive damage to the coastal waters of the planet. This would be like Jesus inviting folk to eat at Herod's table. Not a very likely scenario.

George
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1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

there are 2 types of people in the world

1) non believing sinners
2) believing repented sinners

this spiritual disease affects us in all areas of our earthly lives , including the planet, Thank God for someone Greater, who is in control , that which is called the sovereignty” of God, you can deny it but Truth stands regardless of man, Truth is Divine, Truth is Jesus
 
GeoFee said:
Hi,
Truth is crucified by power, exercised by religious persons in collusion with political persons. Now as then and ever.

George
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Truth made a spectical of the powers, exposing them for all to see, then Truth Reigned Sovereign & Supreme

but was not the topic we were on
 
GeoFee said:
Hi,Sovereign carries the same connotations as control. It suggests a power above. This is seems something Jesus works very hard to overcome. We notice this in the passage where Jesus is speaking to his followers about the way of power in the world. It is privileged. Jesus makes it plain that he is not to be taken in that way. Jesus makes it clear that he is present as one who serves. The very opposite of one who is served; a sovereign. This is amplified in the Philippians passage, where Jesus is presented as one who humbles himself, taking the form of a servant.

Christianity right now is deeply compromised by its wrong understanding of who Jesus is and what Jesus makes possible in and through our faith. Organizations like Back to the Bible and Focus on the Family are wholly compromised by their complicity in the structures of power by which the earth and its peoples is being brought to the brink of destruction. The very idea of inviting stake holders to participate in pleasure cruises, which pander to base human appetite and generate massive damage to the coastal waters of the planet. This would be like Jesus inviting folk to eat at Herod's table. Not a very likely scenario.

George
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--Hi George--
You have a good post here George , blackbelt is a born again Christian" as am I . We don't always agree,". But we do talk about Why that would happen? Short answer , we are not the same person". You seem pulled to help the poor". I do not, it is not that I don't feel for those who hunger, or thirst" those who are cold. I have paid for meals to those". I am very carful though not to enable . You are very right ", where I have underlined".
GODS understanding George I believe is there, in His word" if you have eye's that can see . If You would like an eye opener" Read 1 Cor 15: 42-44 read all 15: if you get a chance. I find it very eye opening". Always remember George . All Glory is GODS. airclean33-Gord.
 
GeoFee ---your quote ---Christianity right now is deeply compromised by its wrong understanding of who Jesus is and what Jesus makes possible in and through our faith.

And if I may ask what is your interpretation or understanding of ----Who Jesus is ----and ---What Jesus makes possible in and through our Faith ---
 
Not the same person???? Different shades of lighter nature?????


Then there's darker humis ... that buzz in the nest!
 
revjohn said:
Fair enough. A lake reflecting the sky is not the lake participating in being the sky. My mirror image may be a reflection of me but if you shatter the mirror only the reflection suffers.

Water seeks its own level. That action is impacted by the wind. Very little desire involved in that. In order for the lake to be stilled then all else needs to be similarly stilled. The reflections seen in the surface of the lake have nothing to do with the desire of water so much as it has everything to do with the properties of water and light.
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Yup, absolutely... while the medium could be water or glass, the reflection is always one of light.

There are old Chinese doctrines that say the mirror gathers dust while it reflects and needs the gentle breezes of Soul‐Wisdom to brush away the dust of illusion.

No. It was motivated by your statement, "God's will could be working through us, if we allowed it to."
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God could be working through us if we did our part in "keeping the mirror clean".
 
Throw in a little holy winds and the image could appear fractal ... or not! None the less disturbed ... Eris 'n with stories buried there ...
 
Hi unsafe,

Thank you for the good question. I will not be able to provide a comprehensive answer. What I can do is offer a brief sketch. We can then explore the ideas presented. This should help you come to a good sense of where I stand and where I am going in the name of Jesus. Let me begin with this:
blackbelt1961 said:
yet still accepts worship as God
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I find no convincing evidence that Jesus ever wanted to be worshipped. The Jesus I have in mind is the rabbi who was baptized, resisted the temptations of the ruler of this world, and declared his mission in the Nazareth synagogue. This Jesus is well described by the apostle in his letter to the Philippians as one who did not seek elevated status, preferring to be present to the people as a servant and not as a king.
unsafe said:
And if I may ask what is your interpretation or understanding of ----Who Jesus is ----and ---What Jesus makes possible in and through our Faith
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I stand in a living relationship with the person Jesus. He is the son of Mary and I am quite convinced that she was one of his primary teachers in the way of God. This is evident in his inversion of the patriarchal structures of Jerusalem and Rome. You will recall his discussion with those who were his followers, in which he makes it plain that he is not present as a man of power. He is present as one who serves. That is, he was present in the way of his mother, his aunt Elizabeth and other women of the day were present.

The words Jesus speaks and the acts he does show forth the compassion of God for the lost and for the forsaken. My thinking is rooted in the prophecy of Ezekiel, his denunciation of false shepherds who exploit and oppress the sheep for their own gain. This being a metaphor (parable) indicating those who seek their own advantage and gain at the expense of the people under their jurisdiction. Having been given authority to rule justly they abused that authority and polluted the justice of God. It is my conviction that the resurrected Jesus, who walks with us in the spirit, has not changed one bit. He is still dedicated to the inclusion of those who are excluded by the powers and principalities oppressing the earth and its peoples. As such persons rejected Jesus then, they will reject him now. This includes religious and political powers seduced by the way of this world.

I am also persuaded that the life and work of Jesus were appropriated by religious and political powers as a means of social control. This began not long after his crucifixion and resurrection. We see evidence of this in the gospels, which were written quite some time after the actual events. As such they reflect a variety of interpretations and commitments. This is true also in the diverse letters (epistles) written by Paul and others. In these we begin to notice matters that are not in agreement with the way of Jesus. I will not say much about this. There is a wide range of scholarship which will affirm my insights.

I began following the way of Jesus, which started with a turning away from the dominant Christian doctrines and dogmas, at the age of thirty. Like Saul I died to all that had shaped and formed me and rose to the newness of life that Jesus reveals. A life of obedience to the spirit by which I have become resistant to the way of the world. This resistance being expressed as a daily turning from what hinders and towards what helps. It also takes form as a prophetic refusal of the religious and political powers by which the world is being spoiled in service to profit and power. This is supported by the testimony of all the righteous prophets in Israel. Each in a particular way denouncing the unrighteous religious and political rulers.

To conclude I will say that I follow the human being Jesus. I understand that this will not make me popular in most Christian circles, where folk prefer the divine Jesus. This not to say I am opposed to the divinity of Jesus. It is to say that I am wholly concerned with following the ethical and moral vision of Jesus and not at all concerned with the theologies of majesty and might developed as the Christian religion took form through the ages. This in light of the abuses and travesties of that religion in all times and in all places. The blessing of exploitation and oppression of indigenous peoples all over the earth by European colonizers blessed by both Catholic and Protestant Christians.

I say such things not as a believer but as a follower who has counted the cost and taken up the cross in the full assurance that obedience to God opens the way of healing and redemption.

George




 
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